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My experience Interviewing for Dave Ramsey

Posted on 11/17/15 at 4:35 pm
Posted by anc
Member since Nov 2012
18154 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 4:35 pm
I am in a sense, a recovering Dave-a-holic. Right after college, I married into several thousand dollars in credit card debt, and happily added several thousand more in the infancy of my marriage.

This was in the early 2000s, the beginning of Dave Ramsey being mainstream in a sense. I joined his website, posted on the forums, listened to his show daily. In fairness, his method for getting out of debt works. But once you are out of debt, it just isn't the best method.

The one thing that I could never completely get was the no car loan deal. My mind would always go to the math. I'm paying 0.9% interest- I can make more than that in an online savings account. I also put everything on an AMEX every month, and paid it off, earning a bunch of points that enabled me to do a few extra things in life.

My wife got a job at Vanderbilt, and the opportunity to get a master's degree. I wasn't making enough money for this to even be a thought - so we moved to Nashville and I started interviewing for jobs. Dave's company headquarters are in Franklin (Cool Springs area) and his company was booming. They had a couple of opportunities that I qualified for, so I sent in my application.

We were set to move to Nashville in a week when the phone rang on a Tuesday They immediately wanted to do a 45 minute phone interview in the middle of my work day with no appointment. I thought it was strange, but I closed my office door and did it. Nothing out of the ordinary.

They followed up with an email a couple hours later, asking if I would be willing to come to Nashville on Thursday. I simply said that we were planning to make the move that weekend, and it would be better for me to push it back to the Monday.

The guy literally said. "We like you, but thats not a good attitude to have. We have other candidates that could be here in 20 minutes if we called them." I relented and said I would be there Thursday at 1. Drive 6 hours there, interview. Drive 6 hours back, while my wife got everything ready for the move.

Got up there and met with my would be supervisor. Had a degree in mechanical engineering from an unaccredited college (Pensacola Christian) and was working in marketing for Dave Ramsey. He wanted to take me to lunch. We went to Moe's Southwest Grill that was right around the corner. He small talked me then took a cell phone call for 30 minutes. Came back in and asked if I was ready to go back - thinking I would be continuing the interview.

That was the interview. I asked a few questions in the lobby about benefits and the like (There are none. No health insurance. A 401k but no match. Just $200 in free Dave Ramsey swag every Xmas to give as gifts). He also told me that should I be offered the job (which he thought I would be), that they would run a credit report and I would ceremoniously cut up my credit cards in front of the entire staff on day one. If I had a car loan, I had 60 days to pay it off or sell it and buy something with cash.

We ended up making the move that weekend. I had no idea what to think. I wasn't comfortable with the whole thing. I ended up getting a good job somewhere else, and about three months later, got the call with the offer. It was almost a third of what we talked about. Said I needed $60k, they offered $25k, which was laughable. They tried to sell me on the benefits of working for Dave Ramsey again. Told them I couldn't take that little of money. Immediately made the offer $45k. I declined again, and they called me back with a 60k offer.

It was really strange. I ended up meeting some people who had worked for him in the past and they told me horror stories of "he considers talking to you in the hallway as a benefit." and that if someone ever leaves the company, they are shunned. Current employees are not allowed to speak to former employees under threat of job loss. People were fired for minor things. It was like a prison, someone told me.

This post was edited on 11/17/15 at 4:40 pm
Posted by TheChosenOne
Member since Dec 2005
18533 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 4:43 pm to
quote:

they told me horror stories of "he considers talking to you in the hallway as a benefit."


shite, so I'm like Dave Ramsay? I tell my employees that getting to me talk to me everyday is a job perk.


Thanks for sharing. It doesn't surprise me that their environment is cult-ish.
Posted by bayoubengals88
LA
Member since Sep 2007
19038 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 4:44 pm to
So it's true...what a joke/fraud if so.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
37171 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 5:12 pm to
quote:

In fairness, his method for getting out of debt works. But once you are out of debt, it just isn't the best method.


I don't have any hard facts to back this up, but i would say, just based on personal estimation, that at least 95 percent of his listeners/followers are in Baby Step Two (or One). I mean, completing Baby Step Two is treated as a HUGE celebration on his show.

And my goodness it's great to be debt free but for the house, but there are actually 5 other steps (4 really, I don't count the 7th as a step) that are also pretty hard. But so few people make it past Step Two, that very little effort is put into helping people deal with steps 3-6. So it makes total sense that doesn't work for people after you are out of debt.

DR and Joel Osteen are very similar. Both are good preachers. Both are selling hope to people who need it. Both discuss simple ways to get there, no shortcuts, etc. Both have a touch of religion in their message. Both give this impression that they do what they do for the greater good, but in reality, they do it to make as much money as they can.

I have a number of accounting/finance related friends and professional associates in Nashville, and your story about interviewing and company culture is very, very, very similar to other stories I have been told. They work very hard for little money with a religious cult fever, and like most cult leaders, DR is nice to the group but a complete prick to individuals.
Posted by autodd03
Clown world
Member since Dec 2013
2532 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 6:33 pm to
Good post. I can't say I'm surprised by any of that.
Posted by anc
Member since Nov 2012
18154 posts
Posted on 11/17/15 at 7:07 pm to
Here's an article about the culture.

LINK

That experience was in 2004. It completely changed my worldview.

Martin Luther had a quote - "The Christian shoemaker does not show that he is a Christian by sewing little crosses into his shoes. He shows he is a Christian by making good shoes."

I am skeptical of businesses and individuals that make the Christian aspect of business the main selling point. Not talking about places like Chick-fil-A and In-n-Out, Im talking about people that are in your face about it.
This post was edited on 11/17/15 at 7:30 pm
Posted by GeauxPack81
Member since Dec 2009
10484 posts
Posted on 11/18/15 at 8:43 am to
quote:

They immediately wanted to do a 45 minute phone interview in the middle of my work day with no appointment.

quote:

The guy literally said. "We like you, but thats not a good attitude to have. We have other candidates that could be here in 20 minutes if we called them."
quote:

He small talked me then took a cell phone call for 30 minutes.


What a shitty interview process
Posted by CHiPs25
ATL
Member since Apr 2014
2904 posts
Posted on 11/18/15 at 10:56 am to
This is very disheartening to hear. I am an avid Dave Ramsey fan and listen to his show everyday. I am currently on baby step 2 and plan on following his steps. I'm fortunate that i'm not in $30k or more debt like some of his followers, mine is a manageable $15k that I can pay off hopefully in 6 months.

Disappointed to hear that what Ramsey portray's is in a sense, smoke and mirrors. He probably hates doing the debt free screams.
Posted by Iosh
Bureau of Interstellar Immigration
Member since Dec 2012
18941 posts
Posted on 11/18/15 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

I simply said that we were planning to make the move that weekend, and it would be better for me to push it back to the Monday.

The guy literally said. "We like you, but thats not a good attitude to have. We have other candidates that could be here in 20 minutes if we called them."
Damn, I would've told them to piss off right here. What an arse
Posted by AUCE05
Member since Dec 2009
42578 posts
Posted on 11/18/15 at 12:16 pm to
I have always viewed Dave and Burger King as the same. Both prey on the poor and stupid.
Posted by TheIndulger
Member since Sep 2011
19239 posts
Posted on 11/18/15 at 12:16 pm to
Good post. That really annoys me. Talk about lowballing you..they give you an offer of 2.4x the original offer when you decline. wtf?

I would never want to work for a place that thinks the mere act of being employed by them is a tangible benefit.

Not surprised, though, since he's so popular and has a cult like following of people who suck at managing their money. He probably has a pretty low opinion of people
Posted by TigerSaints318
Shreveport
Member since Dec 2009
1797 posts
Posted on 11/18/15 at 12:40 pm to
I started listening to him a while back, not because I was in debt, but just to pick up some advice and inspiration.

I have since found Clark Howard and never listen to Dave anymore. Howard is a super nice guy and much more realistic about his guidance. Seems like the opposite of DR. I'd advise anyone listening to Dave to check Clark out.
Posted by prostyleoffensetime
Mississippi
Member since Aug 2009
11484 posts
Posted on 11/18/15 at 8:59 pm to
I'm glad to know all of this. My church is doing that Financial Peace University thing, and I didn't go along with it... Something just seems off with the whole deal.
Posted by bwallcubfan
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2007
38138 posts
Posted on 11/19/15 at 8:01 am to
quote:

In fairness, his method for getting out of debt works. But once you are out of debt, it just isn't the best method.


What do you mean by this exactly?



I am a Dave listener and started his debt snowball in April of this year after a buddy recommended it. I really like his getting out of debt plan aside from the cash envelopes system. Debit cards are just fine. But I'm definitely not a cult-like follower. There are so many things that I disagree with him on. First of all, the $1000 emergency fund is an absolute joke. It's just not practical in 2015. Secondly, I disagree with him on credit cards. I have 2 that I pay off every month. I understand why he says credit cards are dangerous or whatever, but that doesn't apply to me. I'm not the kind of person that will run up an ungodly amount of credit. Just a couple hundred here and there. The third thing is that I'm not stopping retirement while getting out of debt. Just have agree to disagree on that one. And lastly, I don't exactly agree on his investing strategy. The fact that he says he earns an average return of 12% is just folly. I listen to other podcasts for investing advice.

The story in the OP just confirms my opinion of Dave as a person. It doesn't take but 5 mins of listening to his show to know he's a pompous prick. I was given the FPU cd's and a torrent download of his book by a couple friends. So it makes me feel good knowing that he hasn't received a dime from me. And I have no desire to call into his show to scream I'm debt free . But I am surprised about the no health insurance part at work though. Wow...just wow

So I agree with most of the people in this thread. He's a money hungry individual for sure and mainly cares about furthering his brand, but at the end of the day, there's much worse people out there. I've listened to pretty much every show since March because it can be inspiring hearing people's stories. Just don't be naive and believe every word he says as fact and you'll be alright. Common sense is a beautiful thing.
This post was edited on 11/19/15 at 8:06 am
Posted by Spirit of Dunson
Member since Mar 2007
23111 posts
Posted on 11/19/15 at 2:57 pm to
I've listened to about 20 minutes of his show just one time driving. I found him pretty arrogant and was put off by him and switched the channel. That is my only exposure to him, so I never understood the appeal.

Then again, I'm good at math and am not a complete moron, so maybe that is why I don't get the appeal. I'm not sure what he calls "debt-free" but a coworker (and avid Dave fan) protests that I am not debt free since I have a mortgage. I guess technically that is true but I still have a net wealth much higher than the mortgage value, so think I am net debt free.
Posted by Upperdecker
St. George, LA
Member since Nov 2014
30633 posts
Posted on 11/19/15 at 3:22 pm to
I read Total Money Makeover recently. I'm a recent college grad with no debt outside of student loans, and those being a pretty manageable amount at a low interest rate.

His book was common sense to me, and the idea I got from the whole thing, especially the testimonials, was that this plan was made for people who were not taught common sense with money. My parents have done a really good job teaching about how to handle, spend, and save money over my life, so that I haven't had to really learn anything on my own. The feeling I get with his listeners is that these people didn't get that advice. They didn't learn the appropriate ways to take care of your money, and now they are paying for it in debt.

His book makes a lot of sense as a way to pay off debt and shield yourself from any temptation to play around with credit for a chance to increase your profit. I think his idea is that these people have shown they don't handle money properly, so it isn't good advice to tell them to take advantage of credit card cashback and low interest car loans, they're more likely than most people to screw themselves all over again. I think he makes a comparison of credit usage for these people to drug addiction: it starts small but screws your life up if it snowballs, and if an addict recovers from their addiction, they can still be easily tempted back into their vice (debt from credit being the vice for these people).

People like most of us that learned money skills from our parents may occasionally go into debt on bad deals (like Dave did), but we are smart with our money and we will work our way out of debt and back into smart money handling and positions of financial security. So that is why we shouldn't follow Dave's later steps; his plan isnt really meant for us

tl;dr: Dave's plan is meant for people who have no personal financial skills
Posted by BestBanker
Member since Nov 2011
17494 posts
Posted on 11/23/15 at 3:50 pm to
It's a cult of personality.
Posted by hillcountrywanderer
Buda, TX
Member since Jul 2014
529 posts
Posted on 11/24/15 at 9:32 am to
I always had that attitude about DR too. He's good to listen to when you are in the process of getting out of debt. I actually agree with him on the no new car thing too. When you need some inspiration to be frugal, he's a good guy to listen too.

Anything else, finance related, he's totally full of crap. He always recommends the same crappy mutual funds with super high fees that never consistently beat the market (makes me wonder if he gets some kind of referrel money under the table). He isn't a guy you should be seeking out to build wealth once you are out of debt.
Posted by Martini
Near Athens
Member since Mar 2005
48863 posts
Posted on 11/24/15 at 10:22 pm to
If it hasn't been posted read the book Pound Foolish by Helaine Olen.

It will open your eyes (if they aren't open already) to the personal finance business in this country with a chapter on Dave Ramsey. She is not a believer of him. Nor is she of Suze Orman.

It is a good read and well written.
Posted by ItNeverRains
37069
Member since Oct 2007
25612 posts
Posted on 11/25/15 at 5:37 am to
Dave Ramsey is for financially weak minded people. Listen to his show for one solid week. If you relate to one callers financial situation, just one, follow his advice to the letter. If everyone that calls in blows your mind with their financial situation, don't pay attention to one word he says.
This post was edited on 11/25/15 at 5:37 am
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