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Started By
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re: 50 Things About Millennials That Make Corporate America shite Its Pants
Posted on 9/19/14 at 10:49 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
Posted on 9/19/14 at 10:49 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
Well that's basically what I'm arguing. Having experience or knowledge of the industry in the job you are applying for should always give you a leg up on someone who doesn't. That's what happens with entry level jobs. If I am a hiring manager and I have 2 candidates, going on resume alone I am always going to pick the person with the degree in a related field over the general studies major.
This is the problem. The example you gave is poor because it showed 2 applicants with VERY different amounts of work experience. Let's start with a more even comparison.
You are looking for an entry level employee to deal with corporate customer sales. It's mostly data entry and ordering more product for repeat customers, but often requires meeting clients and potential clients in person.
23 year old english literature major (E) vs 22 year old business administration major (B).
E has worked several jobs for both non-profits (hosting charity events) and as a floor salesmen at a local outlet mall.
B had a summer internship at a local custom stationary company and worked stocking shelves at a grocery store in high school.
Both have a 3.6 GPA and the same extracurriculars.
Which one do you interview?
1
Posted on 9/19/14 at 10:51 am to Golfer
You'll get no arguement from me that experience trumps education
In that instance the IT manager would have more than a baseline knowledge of finance that the finance major got in college IMO
In that instance the IT manager would have more than a baseline knowledge of finance that the finance major got in college IMO
This post was edited on 9/19/14 at 10:53 am
Posted on 9/19/14 at 10:55 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
You'll get no arguement from me that experience trumps education
The problem with HR today is that HR is doing the opposite. They screen the major and GPA before the experience, when they should be doing the opposite order.
How does one determine qualifications for entry level positions when one has no concept of what that job entails? How is one fit to decide who to interview based purely on educational qualifications that one is ignorant of? It's an insane system producing very poor results for both employers and job seekers.
Obviously, the real issue is how do you screen applicants for entry level jobs? The entry level job is the first opportunity for experience. How does one differentiate candidates for a position for which there is no relevant experience?
For the past 20 years, they've used the name of a college major and the GPA, and that has not worked particularly well. Perhaps, we need another approach.
This post was edited on 9/19/14 at 10:57 am
Posted on 9/19/14 at 10:55 am to kingbob
Your example doesn't really fit either because E has demonstrated people skills in a previous job.
Posted on 9/19/14 at 10:56 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
Your example doesn't really fit either because E has demonstrated people skills in a previous job.
quote:
They screen the major and GPA before the experience
Posted on 9/19/14 at 10:57 am to kingbob
quote:
They screen the major and GPA before the experience, when they should be doing the opposite order.
Experience trumps major. If you have experience you always list that first on your resume. If not, education goes first. I understand that HR could skip over your experience to check the major, but that's not always their decision either
Posted on 9/19/14 at 10:59 am to Breesus
Your argument started with having the right skills to be a good employee, nothing about experience.
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:00 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
Your argument started with having the right skills to be a good employee, nothing about experience.
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:01 am to Breesus
I stepped away to get a donut, and came back three pages later.
In those three pages there seems to be one side arguing that they have a degree they should be given a job, or at least a chance at a job, based solely on their abilty to put up with prof's and other bs for 4 years.
In those three pages there seems to be one side arguing that they have a degree they should be given a job, or at least a chance at a job, based solely on their abilty to put up with prof's and other bs for 4 years.
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:02 am to Breesus
quote:
What makes them a good candidate?
quote:
Work ethic problem solving drive motivation critical thinking skills people skills loyalty you know, things that make an employee a good employee. But you'd never know if those people can improve your business if you don't give them a shot.
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:02 am to fightin tigers
quote:
there seems to be one side arguing that they have a degree they should be given a job, or at least a chance at a job, based solely on their abilty to put up with prof's and other bs for 4 years.
who's arguing that?
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:03 am to fightin tigers
quote:
In those three pages there seems to be one side arguing that they have a degree they should be given a job, or at least a chance at a job, based solely on their abilty to put up with prof's and other bs for 4 years.
No, we sorta have one side saying that vs the other side saying the same thing except that degree has to be named something that sounds like that job.
This post was edited on 9/19/14 at 11:04 am
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:07 am to kingbob
quote:
In fact, it's so broad that technical knowledge of the field is often unnecessary as long as one has competent subordinites.
I've worked very closely with a number of CEOs in the oil bidness. This is not my experience.
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:08 am to Breesus
quote:
who's arguing that?
I am paraphrasing a little, but isn't your side arguing that a degree should be a degree (limitations to some extent).
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:09 am to fightin tigers
quote:
one side arguing that they have a degree they should be given a job, or at least a chance at a job, based solely on their abilty to put up with prof's and other bs for 4 years.
No. What they were saying is that the landscape has changed for entry level jobs.
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:18 am to Golfer
quote:
No. What they were saying is that the landscape has changed for entry level jobs.
I was referring to all this...
quote:
A lib arts major and a business major have the same level of experience.
quote:
Does someone with a Business Administration degree automatically have more business skills than someone who majored in anthropology?
quote:
What is most important is attitude, willingness to learn, people skills, the ability to do basic algebra and use a calculator, and basic knowledge of Microsoft office. If you've got that down, you can do almost any job that isn't highly specialized
Hopefully during your 4 years you did some internships or had a job that helped you get some experience.
If the Anthropology candidate and Business candidate both life guarded at Blue Bayou there is an argument.
However, 4 years of college and no actual OTJ experience in the field would make me ask questions about why you majored in that.
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:20 am to fightin tigers
quote:
Hopefully during your 4 years you did some internships or had a job that helped you get some experience.
If the Anthropology candidate and Business candidate both life guarded at Blue Bayou there is an argument.
However, 4 years of college and no actual OTJ experience in the field would make me ask questions about why you majored in that.
Now, you're coming around! The problem is, that HR often ignores the former and solely focuses on major and GPA before even considering experience. If you don't have "business" on your degree when applying for a "business" job, they automatically throw you out, even if you have more relevant experience than a job candidate with a "business" degree.
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:26 am to kingbob
I agree, I was talking about people with no experience and/or knowledge vying for a job against people with either of those. They will lose 10/10 times, as they should
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:27 am to kingbob
quote:
If you don't have "business" on your degree when applying for a "business" job, they automatically throw you out, even if you have more relevant experience than a job candidate with a "business" degree.
So you majored in Anthropology and did Business internships?
Sounds like you have no idea what you wanted out of college.
Posted on 9/19/14 at 11:37 am to kingbob
It is an interesting conundrum if you think about it.
Millennials feel that because they've spent tens of thousands of dollars on an education, they are owed a job.
Baby Boomers that run the companies don't want to hire Millennials because they feel like they are entitiled.
Why do millennials spend tens of thousands of dollars on education? Because Baby Boomers running companies decided to make college degrees a must for every position and make college serve as training for their employees instead of investing in their employees themselves. So everyone went to college because they had to, allowing colleges to jack the price of education thru the roof.
Now Millenials are saddled with paying for an education that costs 2000% higher than it did 20 years ago and have to go to work for the same people that are responsible for causing the increase.
So basically, whos on first?
Millennials feel that because they've spent tens of thousands of dollars on an education, they are owed a job.
Baby Boomers that run the companies don't want to hire Millennials because they feel like they are entitiled.
Why do millennials spend tens of thousands of dollars on education? Because Baby Boomers running companies decided to make college degrees a must for every position and make college serve as training for their employees instead of investing in their employees themselves. So everyone went to college because they had to, allowing colleges to jack the price of education thru the roof.
Now Millenials are saddled with paying for an education that costs 2000% higher than it did 20 years ago and have to go to work for the same people that are responsible for causing the increase.
So basically, whos on first?
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