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Started By
Message
re: Buying a house in proposed St. George
Posted on 9/16/14 at 2:50 pm to BigJim
Posted on 9/16/14 at 2:50 pm to BigJim
quote:
Government services? What government services will improve?
I wouldn't expect many changes to services.
I'm sure there will be some; but the Fire, the sewer, water, library, park, and police should stay the same. Mosquitto, Animal Control, no change.
Judicial services??? I don't know. We don't have city courts now, we could in the future I guess. Simple road maintenance??? I don't know, but major plans like the Green Light Plan and state projects wouldn't change.
But I*'m looking at the city thing as a means to an end, not to make a radical change in basic services.
0
Posted on 9/16/14 at 3:19 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
Look no further than the "your taxes are going to go up" comment for the biggest obfuscation of facts.
Posted on 9/16/14 at 3:30 pm to LSURussian
If SG forms a new city, taxes will likely not go up, and may even go down.
If SG forms a new school system taxes will likely go up to build new schools.
If SG becomes a city the city of BR will likely raise taxes.
If SG forms a school district, the EBR system will likely raise taxes.
If nothing changes there is a better chance that city taxes go up than parish wide taxes because city folk tend to vote new taxes on themselves more so than the rest of the parish does. See the CATS tax as evidence of this as well as taxes in the DDD.
But nobody can look you in the eye and tell you with any certainty that taxes won't go up no matter what. If they do they are lying to you8.
If SG forms a new school system taxes will likely go up to build new schools.
If SG becomes a city the city of BR will likely raise taxes.
If SG forms a school district, the EBR system will likely raise taxes.
If nothing changes there is a better chance that city taxes go up than parish wide taxes because city folk tend to vote new taxes on themselves more so than the rest of the parish does. See the CATS tax as evidence of this as well as taxes in the DDD.
But nobody can look you in the eye and tell you with any certainty that taxes won't go up no matter what. If they do they are lying to you8.
Posted on 9/16/14 at 3:33 pm to doubleb
quote:
If SG forms a new city, taxes will likely not go up, and may even go down.
Posted on 9/16/14 at 4:27 pm to LSURussian
And you know taxes will go up if SG forms a new city because????????????
Posted on 9/16/14 at 4:38 pm to doubleb
quote:
And you know taxes will go up if SG forms a new city because????????????
Well Russian has gone into #'s behind it, but my argument is simple: governments like to raise revenue. They are like living beings and taxes are their sustenance. This would create another government. Therefore taxes will eventually go up. Book it.
In fact, I think you agreed without realizing it:
quote:
a better chance that city taxes go up than parish wide taxes because city folk tend to vote new taxes on themselves more
And St. George folk WILL be city folk, just their own city. And they will find reasons to raise taxes.
Posted on 9/16/14 at 4:51 pm to BigJim
quote:
Well Russian has gone into #'s behind it, but my argument is simple: governments like to raise revenue. They are like living beings and taxes are their sustenance. This would create another government. Therefore taxes will eventually go up. Book it
Now I do believe that eventually (not in the near term) taxes would go up as the city's needs grew, etc. I'm not so hardheaded as to say they never would go up, but I can't see any short term tax increases at all. I would never say never.
I guess I didn't make myself clear.
But anti SG people want to tell people that if SG is incorporated there is an immediate need for more tax revenues, and that simply doesn't add up.
Good post
Posted on 9/16/14 at 6:37 pm to doubleb
quote:
And you know taxes will go up if SG forms a new city because????????????
Why are you asking the same question that I have answered for you multiple times using very specific examples from the proposed SG budget which makes it a fantasy devoid of reason? I've even showed how SG's city budgeted expenses are half that of Zachary & Baker on a per capita & geographical area basis, both of which are EBR parish cities subject to the same parish services as SG residents. You ignore the numbers and make excuses like any fanboy would do.
Continue to live in your memory challenged dream word.
When will the petition be turned in since Lionel Rainey The Third has already missed two deadlines to get the incorporation proposal on a ballot this year?
Posted on 9/16/14 at 8:32 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Why are you asking the same question that I have answered for you multiple times using very specific examples from the proposed SG budget which makes it a fantasy devoid of reason? I've even showed how SG's city budgeted expenses are half that of Zachary & Baker on a per capita & geographical area basis, both of which are EBR parish cities subject to the same parish services as SG residents. You ignore the numbers and make excuses like any fanboy would do.
FALSE
Both Baker and Zachary have city fire departments. A new city of SG would not have one since they are covered by their own self sufficient fire departments. Zachary and Baker have water departments. SG has no need for that as a private water company provides water service .Zachary has it's own parks department, SG doesn't intend to have one. BREC provides park services.
These facts are easy to find yet you continue to push the motion that all city budgets are created the same when just a little research says otherwise .
And geography has very little impact on a city when police protection is provided by a parish wide police force(sheriff) that is already in place and is currently providing find coverage . The same also applies to fire service where departments are already in place as well as parks, libraries, etc.
In fact the city administration was quoted as saying when acreage south of BR was annexed it wouldn't cost them any money because no one lived there . So BR grew in size with no financial impact on their treasury yet somehow all this acreage where no one lives in what is the future SG is going to be very expensive to maintain. I'm sorry , that doesn't add up .
Posted on 9/16/14 at 8:44 pm to doubleb
As I said...excuses. Enjoy.
You ignored my question about the petition submittal. Why?
You ignored my question about the petition submittal. Why?
This post was edited on 9/16/14 at 8:45 pm
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:04 pm to doubleb
I've covered the real facts with you numerous times yet you remain obtuse.
Wrong. The BRFD provides services to SG also. That will stop. To make up for the loss of fire coverage, higher property taxes will be required.
You are delusional.
I'm at the point where I don't care if SG gets its own city. I'm going to enjoy watching people like you bitch and moan when the services you're getting now are cut back and your only option is to increase taxes.
AND YOU STILL WON'T HAVE AN ISD.
quote:
A new city of SG would not have one since they are covered by their own self sufficient fire departments.
Wrong. The BRFD provides services to SG also. That will stop. To make up for the loss of fire coverage, higher property taxes will be required.
quote:BRPD provides police services to SG on a regular basis. That will stop. SG will not have 24/7/365 police coverage (in the absence of BRPD providing backup) without the sheriff adding a massive number of new deputies. That won't be free to SF taxpayers. There will be a significant increase in SG property taxes to fund the sheriff's new deputies or the hiring of a SG police force.
police protection is provided by a parish wide police force(sheriff) that is already in place and is currently providing find coverage .
quote:SG is not vacant land. In area it is larger than Baton Rouge.
In fact the city administration was quoted as saying when acreage south of BR was annexed it wouldn't cost them any money because no one lived there
You are delusional.
I'm at the point where I don't care if SG gets its own city. I'm going to enjoy watching people like you bitch and moan when the services you're getting now are cut back and your only option is to increase taxes.
AND YOU STILL WON'T HAVE AN ISD.
This post was edited on 9/16/14 at 9:06 pm
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:26 pm to LSURussian
BRFD service in SG us minimal and so is BRPD when you look at the big picture.
And I don't see why both cities and both fire departments won't continue to cooperate. After all SG fire also goes into the city to provide services too.
You can continue to paint this picture of doom and gloom by stating half truths and omitting key facts but SG has a large enough tax base to provide the outlined services and that's why BR us fighting so hard to keep SG unincorporated.
And I don't see why both cities and both fire departments won't continue to cooperate. After all SG fire also goes into the city to provide services too.
You can continue to paint this picture of doom and gloom by stating half truths and omitting key facts but SG has a large enough tax base to provide the outlined services and that's why BR us fighting so hard to keep SG unincorporated.
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:31 pm to LSURussian
The deadline for the December election is in October.
That deadline has not passed.
The petition is still alive and well and eventually I see a vote on the horizon. There is no drop dead deadline. You know that.
That deadline has not passed.
The petition is still alive and well and eventually I see a vote on the horizon. There is no drop dead deadline. You know that.
Posted on 9/16/14 at 9:33 pm to LSURussian
1. BRPD does not back up the Sheriff and has no jurisdiction in this area. Sheriff has always patrolled the unincorporated areas of the parish.
BRPD barely can patrol what they have inside the city.
2.BRFD covers some area, but ST George also covers some areas inside the city.
3.I just bought another property in ST George which my property taxes are cheaper than inside the city. The property also will increase in value. Inside the city we pay the CATS tax. Even if ST George goes up it will equal out to probably what you would pay inside the city.
4. City taxes will also go up to make up for the money the city has been taking from the unincorporated areas.
5. Now I got my property inside the city appraised to sell it. The property value fell below homestead exemption for the first time in twenty years. Just think how many homes fall under homestead exemption in Baton Rouge compared to homes that pay property taxes.
BRPD barely can patrol what they have inside the city.
2.BRFD covers some area, but ST George also covers some areas inside the city.
3.I just bought another property in ST George which my property taxes are cheaper than inside the city. The property also will increase in value. Inside the city we pay the CATS tax. Even if ST George goes up it will equal out to probably what you would pay inside the city.
4. City taxes will also go up to make up for the money the city has been taking from the unincorporated areas.
5. Now I got my property inside the city appraised to sell it. The property value fell below homestead exemption for the first time in twenty years. Just think how many homes fall under homestead exemption in Baton Rouge compared to homes that pay property taxes.
This post was edited on 9/16/14 at 9:38 pm
Posted on 9/16/14 at 10:32 pm to johnnyrocket
quote:You are 100% wrong. I have previously posted several links where BRPD either participated with the sheriff in major round ups in the parish or where the BRPD has PRIMARY jurisdiction in an unincorporated part of the parish such as in Towne Center. This coordination is covered by a cooperative agreement between the sheriff and the BRPD which goes back several decades which I have also previously posted.
1. BRPD does not back up the Sheriff and has no jurisdiction in this area.
quote:Prove it.
ST George also covers some areas inside the city.
quote:This depends on the assessed value. BR property owners pay 10.6 additional mills for CATS and 13.22 mills more for police and fire and "general fund." SG pays extra for its various fire districts which vary from 14 to 40 mills depending on the fire district. LINK. The total millage is pretty much equal between BR city and parish property. However BR property owners enjoy lower fire insurance premium rates because the BR Fire Dept has the best rating a city can get. None of the parish fire districts have that high rating.
3.I just bought another property in ST George which my property taxes are cheaper than inside the city.
quote:It's interesting how you admit taxes in SG will increase because you state "city taxes will ALSO go up...." So after trying to argue that SG taxes are lower, you turn around and admit they will increase ALSO. Why do you like more taxes?
4. City taxes will also go up to make up for the money the city has been taking from the unincorporated areas.
You 5th point is irrelevant in a discussion of future tax increases.
Posted on 9/16/14 at 10:41 pm to doubleb
quote:Wrong again. I have posted the link below several times, Mr. Forgetful.
The deadline for the December election is in October.
August 3, 2014
quote:
Backers of the new city have been trying to reach 18,000 petition signatures by Oct. 21 so voters in the proposed boundaries of St. George can decide before the year ends if they want to be an independent city in the southern part of East Baton Rouge Parish. The deadline was set by the Secretary of State’s Office, which gives their office time to put the proposal on the ballot.
On Friday, Elaine Lamb, East Baton Rouge Parish registrar of voters, said that date doesn’t take into account the time her office needs to verify all of the signatures on the petition — a process that must happen before the Secretary of State’s Office puts the item on the ballot.
“We really would need the names by now,” Lamb said, referring to the time needed to make a December ballot. “But we at least need them by the beginning of September.”
Note the "by the beginning of September" statement. Or just ignore it like you do all other facts.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 8:05 am to LSURussian
quote:
Note the "by the beginning of September" statement. Or just ignore it like you do all other facts.
That's not a "fact", that's this lady's "opinion", and she didn't even give a deadline when she gave her opinion.
The "fact" is the Sec. of State says the "deadline" to get "propositions" on the December ballot is 10/21/14 and that date can not be changed by anyone but the La. Legislature.
LINK
But even that isn't a true deadline because if the SG committee wants to wait until next year, they have every right to do so if they feel it is in their best interest.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 8:14 am to doubleb
quote:"The lady" is responsible for certifying the signatures in order for the Sec of State to put the initiative on the ballot in December. That's a fact not an opinion. If she can't get the signatures verified by October 21, it won't be on the ballot in December.
That's not a "fact", that's this lady's "opinion",
quote:
and she didn't even give a deadline when she gave her opinion.
quote:What part of that deadline is unclear to you?
“We really would need the names by now,” Lamb said, referring to the time needed to make a December ballot. “But we at least need them by the beginning of September.”
quote:
The "fact" is the Sec. of State says the "deadline" to get "propositions" on the December ballot is 10/21/14 and that date can not be changed by anyone but the La. Legislature.
If the Registrar of Voters can't get the signatures certified, it won't be on the December ballot. Once again, you're just being willfully obtuse and making excuses for the incompetence of the SG leaders. quote:So you continue to support their manipulating the process to wait for a date when turnout will be low?? And you do this after bitching on this board numerous times about politicians doing that same thing on tax elections??
But even that isn't a true deadline because if the SG committee wants to wait until next year, they have every right to do so if they feel it is in their best interest.
Okay, I got it now. You're just a typical hypocrite. You fit in perfectly with the SG hypocrites and liars.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 8:43 am to LSURussian
We can quibble over semantics, the lady gave her opinion, she never set a deadline; but who but you cares?
It changes nothing at all.
But I do believe if the SG committee waltzed into the registrar of voters office this week with 18,000 or so signatures, the lady might change her mind.
But that is just my opinion.
And I do not support governments manipulating the system to gain advantages. Don't put words in my mouth.
But as far as manipulating the system, look at what the anti SG people have done. They tried to change the law several times at the legislature to stop the SG effort, they have tried to annex railroads, pasture lands, and have used political persuasion to gain an advantage and a larger tax base.
Anybody paying attention knows who has manipulated the system the most and it isn't the SG people.
It changes nothing at all.
But I do believe if the SG committee waltzed into the registrar of voters office this week with 18,000 or so signatures, the lady might change her mind.
But that is just my opinion.
quote:
So you continue to support their manipulating the process to wait for a date when turnout will be low?? And you do this after bitching on this board numerous times about politicians doing that same thing on tax elections?? Okay, I got it now. You're just a typical hypocrite. You fit in perfectly with the SG hypocrites and liars.
And I do not support governments manipulating the system to gain advantages. Don't put words in my mouth.
But as far as manipulating the system, look at what the anti SG people have done. They tried to change the law several times at the legislature to stop the SG effort, they have tried to annex railroads, pasture lands, and have used political persuasion to gain an advantage and a larger tax base.
Anybody paying attention knows who has manipulated the system the most and it isn't the SG people.
Posted on 9/17/14 at 8:59 am to doubleb
quote:WTF???
but who but you cares?
quote:So you think the Registrar of Voters could certify 18,000 signatures in 5 weeks? Are you on drugs?
But I do believe if the SG committee waltzed into the registrar of voters office this week with 18,000 or so signatures, the lady might change her mind.
They missed the deadline for getting on the December ballot. Deal with it.
quote:I didn't, you did. And you proved your hypocrisy when you did.
And I do not support governments manipulating the system to gain advantages. Don't put words in my mouth.
I'm not going to take the bait for your red herring argument.
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