re: I'm for allowing secession

I will play

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1) No dual citizens. Anyone residing in a state that secedes has 6 months to decide if they want to continue to be a U.S. citizen, or to be a citizen of the seceded state (and forfeit all their rights to social security, medicare, veterans care, federal pensions, etc.)

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For this reason alone New York and New Jersey will totally allow Florida to secede.

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3) Seceded states agree to not form a confederacy with other seceded states for a period of 99 years.

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I don't see a need for this. Plus it would be bypassed and difficult to enforce.

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2 ... 4.

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No complaints.
Edit: Don't need 5. Why would I want a resident of the seceded state defending our country?

One major problem with the whole idea:

There isn't an "out" clause to a state's membership in the union. It is because the states that formed the union realized that this wasn't something that they could / should reverse at any given time.

Do most of the states complaining in 2014 realize that they weren't some independent state that joined, but a territory that was purchased in whole and "states" were parceled out and created for the sake of local governance by the USA? I wonder if they have contemplated this. Quite frankly the USA probably still has the right to redraw state lines if it wanted to.

Do the territories that secede have to pay their share of legacy (debt) costs?

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Do the territories that secede have to pay their share of legacy (debt) costs?

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Yes, but we'll count all renounced social security, medicare, and other obligations towards that amount.

Since Lincoln was a criminal for not allowing succession, I would think that states should be allowed to leave just like Scotland is being allowed to vote. No one nor the constitution gave Lincoln the right to force states to stay in a union they didn't desire to stay in.

Every state would leave save New England, Illinois, California, Oregon and Washington. The other close states would probably choose to go with the red states, knowing the blue states would be bankrupt soon.

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For this reason alone New York and New Jersey will totally allow Florida to secede

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Plus it would be bypassed and difficult to enforce.

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The U.S. would still have the bomb and the entire US military. It would be pretty simple to enforce.

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There isn't an "out" clause to a state's membership in the union. It is because the states that formed the union realized that this wasn't something that they could / should reverse at any given time.

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Although allowing secession is not explicitly mentioned - certainly the U.S. - as a sovereign entity - has Constitutional authority to cede part of itself to another entity by treaty and ratification.

de-facto - state secession can be Constitutionally accomplished by

1) the state who wishes to secede sets up a government that claims land somewhere else - anywhere - it doesn't matter. They can probably pay some South American country to get an island.

2) Once they have established a sovereign government of any kind anywhere in the world, the U.S. may now enter into a treaty with them.

3) U.S. and pre-state government enter into treaty to cede land of the state to that government - with all the conditions above.

4) de-facto secession.

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I'm for allowing secession. If wanna leave good riddance, with the following conditions:

1) No dual citizens. Anyone residing in a state that secedes has 6 months to decide if they want to continue to be a U.S. citizen, or to be a citizen of the seceded state (and forfeit all their rights to social security, medicare, veterans care, federal pensions, etc.)

2) With the exception of actual real estate, all federal property is returned to the United States - including nuclear arsenals and any other weapons and any monies owed. Any land and buildings within the state the state gets to keep - with the exception that any federal land which is bordered by a non-secession state is kept by the feds, and any buildings which themselves contain architecture classified as secret will be removed or destroyed.

3) Seceded states agree to not form a confederacy with other seceded states for a period of 99 years.

4) Any state whose secession would cause one part of the continental U.S. to be physically cut off from another agrees to allow the U.S. to keep enough sovereign land in the state to guarantee a continuous passage for U.S. residents.

5) All members of the U.S. military are still required to fulfill their service obligations, and seceded states agree to aid the U.S. in apprehending service members who violate those obligations.

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This one is a pretty huge sticking point- basically only maybe 10 states could go it alone due to either advanced and diverse economies (California, Texas, New York, possibly Washington) or natural resources ala a Petro-state like Saudi Arabia (North Dakota, Alaska, Louisiana) most other states that have ever talked about seccession would quickly collapse into third world status-- what's say Mississippi going to do to prevent complete and utter economic collapse without federal dollars to cover their retiree's, federal investment to pay for its infrastructure and federal jobs?

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Since Lincoln was a criminal for not allowing succession, I would think that states should be allowed to leave just like Scotland is being allowed to vote. No one nor the constitution gave Lincoln the right to force states to stay in a union they didn't desire to stay in.

Every state would leave save New England, Illinois, California, Oregon and Washington. The other close states would probably choose to go with the red states, knowing the blue states would be bankrupt soon.

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I don't see PA, OH, MI, leaving the Union to join a bunch of southern states, nor Colorado, Missouri would be a tossup at best, Nevada and Hawaii would stay as likely would Florida and Virginia, North Carolina would be a toss up at best.

Basically (and only if this happened soon and only if say the defense contractors in Texas were allowed to move all factories and tech to the new US) basically all that would even think about it is- the SEC States- minus Florida, Kansas, Nebraska, UT, Wyoming, and the Dakotas. Alaska would leave but there is almost zero chance it would join any confederacy instead of going its own way.

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the control of the Mississippi River and port of New Orleans

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You'll have as much control as your mighty Louisiana navy is able to wrest from your envious neighbors.

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One major problem with the whole idea:

There isn't an "out" clause to a state's membership in the union. It is because the states that formed the union realized that this wasn't something that they could / should reverse at any given time.

Do most of the states complaining in 2014 realize that they weren't some independent state that joined, but a territory that was purchased in whole and "states" were parceled out and created for the sake of local governance by the USA? I wonder if they have contemplated this. Quite frankly the USA probably still has the right to redraw state lines if it wanted to.

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Eighteenth and nineteenth century history disagrees with you.

Yeah Texas really needs to GTFO. I'm tired of those gun crazy over caffeinated cowboys.