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Message
re: Isis is Bush's fault?
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:32 pm to Zach
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:32 pm to Zach
quote:There were inspectors in Iraq before W went to war. Don't you remember Cheney claiming that we know exactly where the WMD's are and the inspectors replying "If you know where they are, tell us so we can get them." ?
There is one question I raised during the whole thing and no one has ever been able to answer it.
In real time... Saddam either had WMD or he did not.
If he did not, why did he ban inspectors?
1
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:32 pm to SirWinston
quote:
That Muslim/Middle Eastern man mentality. You can't back a Muslim or Arab man into a corner - he won't surrender. He'd rather die and lose everything than submit to an enemy that he hates.
Overly simplistic. Then why did he allow inspections? Were you paying attention in real time? If not, it went like this:
Cops come to my house to look for illegal drugs.
Me: "Go right ahead. I have no drugs."
They check out my living room, my bathroom, my bedroom.
Me: "See...no drugs."
Then they head for my garage closet.
Me: "No!!!! You may not look in there. Go away!"
That's what happened with Saddam for over a year.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:32 pm to jamboybarry
Why they exist is irrelevant at this point. What we're going to do about it is the question that needs to be asked.
Oh, that's right. After a year we still don't have a strategy for that.
Oh, that's right. After a year we still don't have a strategy for that.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:33 pm to SirWinston
quote:
Be fair - he didn't pull out of Iraq or Afghanistan immediately like his base expected. He hung in there and tried to play it both ways. If he hadn't promised to withdraw (and started to withdraw) by 2012 elections, he'd have had a mutiny on his hands. And like 85% of the US public wanted the hell out by then anyway
That's irrelevant to me. We now have troops back in Iraq actively fighting ISIS. If he could have established a SOFA and left an advisory force behind one could argue we wouldn't be here (at least ISIS in Iraq).
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:33 pm to mmcgrath
quote:
There were inspectors in Iraq before W went to war. Don't you remember Cheney claiming that we know exactly where the WMD's are and the inspectors replying "If you know where they are, tell us so we can get them." ?
See my subsequent post.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:34 pm to Zach
quote:
Overly simplistic. Then why did he allow inspections? Were you paying attention in real time? If not, it went like this:
He still had hopes that the UN would vehemently oppose the war and that he could "win" diplomatically.
This post was edited on 9/2/14 at 12:35 pm
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:35 pm to Zach
quote:
If he did not, why did he ban inspectors?
He would ban them, then let them in, then ban them, then let them in. It was a game he was playing to save face in the ME.
He never thought we'd actually invade a second time.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:36 pm to SirWinston
quote:
He still had hopes that the UN would vehemently oppose the war and that he could "win" diplomatically.
or he knew the game was rigged and he was fricked whatever he did, so he wanted to save face.
So zach, where are the WMDs?
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:37 pm to SirWinston
quote:
He still had hopes that the UN would vehemently oppose the war and that he could "win" diplomatically.
That makes no sense at all. He could 'win' diplomatically by allowing inspection of ALL the rooms. The only motivation for banning one room is that you have drugs in it.
If it were an issue being Macho you wouldn't allow ANY room inspections.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:38 pm to Hawkeye95
So while you're nonsensically debating this, the here and now is that the fanatics have just murdered another American. Wait, let's blame Bush 'cause that's going to make the man's family and the entire country feel sooooo much better! 
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:40 pm to Zach
quote:
That makes no sense at all. He could 'win' diplomatically by allowing inspection of ALL the rooms.
My answer to this was that he wanted it to be ambiguous to his enemies and the world that he MAY have WMD's still (even though he didn't really). But do enough to earn the UN's backing (which he did) and get them to try and prevent war (which they were impotent to do).
This post was edited on 9/2/14 at 12:41 pm
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:40 pm to conservativewifeymom
quote:
So while you're nonsensically debating this, the here and now is that the fanatics have just murdered another American. Wait, let's blame Bush 'cause that's going to make the man's family and the entire country feel sooooo much better!
The right.....let's not look back on causes of things, instead let's focus on the present.
except for benghazi. We must know what happened with benghazi.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:41 pm to conservativewifeymom
There were beheadings under Bush - were you blaming him then as you are blaming Obama now?
The beheadings are grotesque and the fault of militant Islam. Nobody in the civilized world is to blame for this
The beheadings are grotesque and the fault of militant Islam. Nobody in the civilized world is to blame for this
This post was edited on 9/2/14 at 12:42 pm
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:43 pm to SirWinston
Saddam Hussein was a murderous dictator that killed upwards of a 1,000,000 people. Women and children raped, gassed and tortured. The left wants to glass over this fact and pretend the world would be a better place if he was still in power. I frankly don't care why we invaded Iraq, Oil, Vendetta etc doesn't matter to me we did and a despicable worthless dictator was hung - so be it - praise Allah. If we actually went into some of these places and acted in with bad intentions that war dictates instead of worrying about the NYT's and political factions the world would be a better place. Bad murderous people deserve to die, don't care how. Politics and war don't mix. Decide on an action carry it out. Red lines, and no leadership led to ISIS plain and simple.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:45 pm to geauxtigs99
quote:
Saddam Hussein was a murderous dictator that killed upwards of a 1,000,000 people. Women and children raped, gassed and tortured. The left wants to glass over this fact and pretend the world would be a better place if he was still in power. I frankly don't care why we invaded Iraq, Oil, Vendetta etc doesn't matter to me we did and a despicable worthless dictator was hung - so be it - praise Allah. If we actually went into some of these places and acted in with bad intentions that war dictates instead of worrying about the NYT's and political factions the world would be a better place. Bad murderous people deserve to die, don't care how. Politics and war don't mix. Decide on an action carry it out. Red lines, and no leadership led to ISIS plain and simple.
Let Merkel worry about that. Germany is wealthy as hell and is actually in the same hemisphere/world theater as Iraq. Germany also owes the world a great debt for the atrocities they committed in WWII.
If liberal Europe doesn't care about these atrocities then WTF should conservative (relatively speaking) America (half a world away) give two shits?
This post was edited on 9/2/14 at 12:47 pm
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:46 pm to SirWinston
quote:
My answer to this was that he wanted it to be ambiguous to his enemies and the world that he MAY have WMD's still (even though he didn't really). But do enough to earn the UN's backing (which he did) and get them to try and prevent war (which they were impotent to do).
Do you realize how contorted that is?
So, Bush, only relying on one sure fact... He either has WMD or he does not. Should have said "I think his alternating of allowing and expelling inspectors is due to his wish to appear ambiguous. We will respect his ambiguity."
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:49 pm to Zach
It's not that contorted bc he almost pulled it off.
The UN was opposed to military action and if it weren't for Tony Blair's extraordinary support Bush may not have been able to stage the war in the manner he did. Most of Europe was adamantly against the war and Blair's support made all the difference.
The UN was opposed to military action and if it weren't for Tony Blair's extraordinary support Bush may not have been able to stage the war in the manner he did. Most of Europe was adamantly against the war and Blair's support made all the difference.
This post was edited on 9/2/14 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:49 pm to SirWinston
quote:
Let Merkel worry about that. Germany is wealthy as hell and is actually in the same hemisphere/world theater as Iraq. Germany also owes the world a great debt for the atrocities they committed in WWII.
If liberal Europe doesn't care about these atrocities then WTF should conservative (relatively speaking) America (half a world away) give two shits?
Then close the borders and become an isolationist country. Leader of the free world my arse then.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:52 pm to geauxtigs99
The way that the media is these days, Obama could miss a tap in putt and they'd say that it was because Bush was in the trees yelling NOONAN.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 12:55 pm to SirWinston
quote:
It's not that contorted bc he almost pulled it off.
No, he didn't. The build up prior to the offensive was massive and took a very long time. He could have surrendered to unconditional inspections and he'd still be in power.
quote:
The UN was opposed to military action
The UN is always opposed to military action. The UN has NO respect from any head of state (see Putin). The UN is a 3rd World debating society interested in transferring wealth from the developed world. The UN should be disbanded 30 years ago.
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