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Started By
Message
re: Pentagon Relaxes Rules On Religious Clothing And Appearance In Military Uniforms
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:13 am to mmcgrath
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:13 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Because it is the equivalence of superstition. You would think that modern people in a modern society realize that religious clothing didn't come as a direction from God but that some humans thought it would be a good idea.
As I understand it Catholic Mass used to be given in Latin. Obviously that went away when enough people realized how stupid it was.
we aren't talking about superstitions here, we are talking about freedom of religion. Whether you disagree with certain religious beliefs, the country you call yourself apart of was founded on the principle that you are able to practice your religion freely. So if you believe that your head should be covered, no law can be passed that causes you to uncover. If part of your religious belief is to wear a certain religious dress, no law should prevent you from doing this.
I'm fine with you personally wanting religious dress to be done away with. Work for that goal all you want, but legally you can't prevent religious dress. That would be a direct violation of religious freedom.
1
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:15 am to catholictigerfan
You are allowed to practice whichever faith you choose in the military already within the confines of military regulations. Guess what happens in war, we don't call a timeout for Sunday Mass or afternoon kneel to Mecca prayer time. The simple fact is that you do give up certain freedoms when you join the service. This is all done for a reason. And we've been doing pretty well for that two and a quarter centuries.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:20 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
You are allowed to practice whichever faith you choose in the military already within the confines of military regulations. Guess what happens in war, we don't call a timeout for Sunday Mass or afternoon kneel to Mecca prayer time. The simple fact is that you do give up certain freedoms when you join the service. This is all done for a reason. And we've been doing pretty well for that two and a quarter centuries.
I need to step away.
I get what you are saying, and of course there are going to be times when it is impossible. But, I have a problem with someone having to give up certain religious beliefs that aren't necessary to be in the military. It is necessary that you wear a certain type of hat? Be Clean shaven?
I'll come back to this later.
I believe the military should do the best they can to accommodate the religion of their soldiers. Sometimes it will be next to impossible to do that, but you can't say that just because your in the military you can't practice your religion. That is what happened before the pentagon changed this policy.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:21 am to catholictigerfan
quote:I never said I wanted to legally ban it, I just said it was stupid and wished it would go away. As far as I understand, my wishes aren't legally binding... but wouldn't that be cool?
we aren't talking about superstitions here, we are talking about freedom of religion. Whether you disagree with certain religious beliefs, the country you call yourself apart of was founded on the principle that you are able to practice your religion freely. So if you believe that your head should be covered, no law can be passed that causes you to uncover. If part of your religious belief is to wear a certain religious dress, no law should prevent you from doing this.
I'm fine with you personally wanting religious dress to be done away with. Work for that goal all you want, but legally you can't prevent religious dress. That would be a direct violation of religious freedom.
BTW: Two objections to your statement:
1) Laws do exist that require you to remove covering under certain situations.
2) Religious clothing is superstition. None of it has any solid basis in a requirement from God. Devout Muslims won't look a woman directly in the eyes for the same silly reasons. Christians think that a few Hail Mary's and talking to a guy in a closet can absolve you of your sins.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:23 am to catholictigerfan
quote:I think you are going to get flamed for this.
It is necessary that you wear a certain type of hat?
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:25 am to catholictigerfan
Horrible idea, I don't know if you have ever served but it is a horrible idea
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:27 am to mmcgrath
quote:
I never said I wanted to legally ban it, I just said it was stupid and wished it would go away. As far as I understand, my wishes aren't legally binding... but wouldn't that be cool?
BTW: Two objections to your statement:
1) Laws do exist that require you to remove covering under certain situations.
2) Religious clothing is superstition. None of it has any solid basis in a requirement from God. Devout Muslims won't look a woman directly in the eyes for the same silly reasons. Christians think that a few Hail Mary's and talking to a guy in a closet can absolve you of your sins.
This doesn't have to do with the discussion. We are talking about religious freedom, not the rationality of religious practices.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:32 am to catholictigerfan
Ignore him. He's a troll.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:35 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
It is necessary that you wear a certain type of hat? Be Clean shaven?
Yes. And it has been that way forever.
quote:
I believe the military should do the best they can to accommodate the religion of their soldiers
They already do this within the confines of acceptable military discipline.
quote:No. It wasn't.
That is what happened before the pentagon changed this policy.
This post was edited on 9/2/14 at 9:43 am
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:42 am to catholictigerfan
quote:Freedoms like Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech don't exist in the military as they do in civilian life, nor should they. If the dress code is changed to allow alternative headgear, fine. Religious exceptions to uniform code, no.
This doesn't have to do with the discussion. We are talking about religious freedom, not the rationality of religious practices.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:57 am to catholictigerfan
Does this apply to Christians? Seems like I remember them banning scripture carved on the soldiers sidearm and also banned things like crucifix necklaces and such.
If this doesn't apply to all then it's bullshite
If this doesn't apply to all then it's bullshite
Posted on 9/2/14 at 9:57 am to catholictigerfan
Does this apply to Christians? Seems like I remember them banning scripture carved on the soldiers sidearm and also banned things like crucifix necklaces and such.
If this doesn't apply to all then it's bullshite
If this doesn't apply to all then it's bullshite
Posted on 9/2/14 at 10:05 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
I know many people freak out about muslims, but most muslims aren't like the radicals, they are peaceful people and don't want to see death to america.
Maybe if you repeat it enough, one day it will become truth...
Posted on 9/2/14 at 10:06 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
Military Uniformity is good, but the constitution is more important.
I got news for you hoss. When you join the military you do voluntarily give up some of your civil liberties. If you don't know this then you haven't served before.
I believe the military should do a lot to respect all religions of it's troops. It already does. It does a lot to serve it's troops religious needs. Can it do more? Of course. But the military as a whole is becoming to politically correct. Unlike private employment and other govt agencies the defense department does have every right to to put unit cohesion first; even at the expense of the personal needs of an individual service member.
This is a good argument where I understand both point of views.
This post was edited on 9/2/14 at 10:07 am
Posted on 9/2/14 at 10:11 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
quote:
Discipline and unit cohesion is what wins battles.
so this is more important than religious freedom?
explain to me how military discipline is more important than religious freedom. This is the main issue here.
Are you serious? Do you honestly realize how dumb you sound?
Nobody is against religious freedom(except muslims). That said, the military protects that freedom. If you cant handle losing a bit of freedom, dont join the military.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 10:19 am to catholictigerfan
yeah, killing people only works when everybody looks the same and doesn't have a beard.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 10:24 am to Tigah in the ATL
quote:
yeah, killing people only works when everybody looks the same and doesn't have a beard.
Every time I deployed I had a beard. Good argument.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 10:27 am to WhoDatGreenBeret
quote:
Every time I deployed I had a beard. Good argument.
That's completely different. It was required for the work you did. And you were part of a unit that was full of mature, experienced, and highly skilled soldiers. You know as well as I that that wouldn't work in a line unit.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 10:28 am to catholictigerfan
quote:
Allowing Turbans, Head Scarves And Yarmulkes
But you better not have a cross on your lapel or it's a quick trip to the stockade.
Posted on 9/2/14 at 10:31 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
That's completely different. It was required for the work you did. And you were part of a unit that was full of mature, experienced, and highly skilled soldiers. You know as well as I that that wouldn't work in a line unit.
You are correct. Just countering his argument. If he even had one.
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