- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
WWII buffs: let's talk about Germany's biggest strategic blunder
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:16 pm
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:16 pm
No, not the invasion of Russia. That was the centerpiece of Hitler's ideology from the get-go, and the concept even predated Hitler and the Nazis. Doomed to failure or not, lebensraum was inseparable from Nazism, and therefore was not a blunder per se.
No, the biggest German failure was a diplomatic one, the inability to bring Spain into the Axis fold. Spain did provide some nominal assistance on the Eastern Front, but stayed officially neutral, and Franco played both sides, depending on who had the upper hand.
A fully Axis Spain gives Germany control of virtually the entire Mediterranean, cutting Britain off from the Middle East, India, and the southern supply route to Russia through Iran. Game over.
Keeping Spain on the sidelines was key to the eventual German defeat, and was a major diplomatic coup for the allies.
No, the biggest German failure was a diplomatic one, the inability to bring Spain into the Axis fold. Spain did provide some nominal assistance on the Eastern Front, but stayed officially neutral, and Franco played both sides, depending on who had the upper hand.
A fully Axis Spain gives Germany control of virtually the entire Mediterranean, cutting Britain off from the Middle East, India, and the southern supply route to Russia through Iran. Game over.
Keeping Spain on the sidelines was key to the eventual German defeat, and was a major diplomatic coup for the allies.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:18 pm to Jim Rockford
nb4 Darth
nb4 Darth downvotes
nb4 Darth downvotes
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:19 pm to Jim Rockford
USA would have kicked the shite out of anybody. It didn't really matter what they did.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:20 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
That was the centerpiece of Hitler's ideology from the get-go, and the concept even predated Hitler and the Nazis. Doomed to failure or not, lebensraum was inseparable from Nazism, and therefore was not a blunder per se.
The way he carried it out was quite blunder-y. I don't believe that it was inherently doomed to fail.
This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 11:21 pm
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:21 pm to Jim Rockford
If only those mean Jews woulda liked Hitler's shitty paintings...
This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 11:22 pm
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:22 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
No, not the invasion of Russia. That was the centerpiece of Hitler's ideology from the get-go, and the concept even predated Hitler and the Nazis. Doomed to failure or not, lebensraum was inseparable from Nazism, and therefore was not a blunder per se.
How does this exclude it from being a blunder?
Regardless of if it was the plan all along, they did it before their Western front was secure.
That is one of the main aspects that killed them: the two front war that opened up. They gambled that the UK wouldn't get assistance from the US and lost thanks to Pearl.
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:22 pm to Jim Rockford
Why is it if you make a thread about some super-specific Nazi stuff ("Who was Hitler's favorite barber?") you will get replies, but my general History Discussion threads never went anywhere?
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:24 pm to Jim Rockford
I am no history buff. I say two blunders cost Hitler:
1) Not being able to sack Britain 100% before lebensbraum
2) Japan not attacking eastern Russia as planned/expected
3) oh, and also pissing off USA
1) Not being able to sack Britain 100% before lebensbraum
2) Japan not attacking eastern Russia as planned/expected
3) oh, and also pissing off USA
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:31 pm to Jim Rockford
Interesting perspective. I can send where you're coming from but to be honest, from a military capability standpoint, Spain would have been even more of a burden on the Germans than their Italian Allies were. Spain had just come out of a bloody civil war and was in no position to make any serious contribution to Germany.
And speaking of the Italians, I believe they actually were the Germans biggest blunder. I base my opinion on the fact it was the Italians collapse in North Africa that made it necessary for the Germans to divert much needed resources to the Med theater. On top of this it was also due to the Italian fiasco in Greece and Albania that forced the Germans to divert resources to the Balkans and more importantly pushed back the original start date of Operation Barbarossa from May to June. This delay meant that the Germans reached Moscow in a full blown Russian winter wile the Russians had time to bring reinforcements from Siberia along with evacuating a huge chunk if it's industrial capacity the safety of Urals. Had operation Barbarossa kicked off at the start of May as was originally intended, the Germans may have actually been able to take Moscow and force the Soviets to sue for peace. But by delaying it for that key month, they wasted any chance if victory they had.
And speaking of the Italians, I believe they actually were the Germans biggest blunder. I base my opinion on the fact it was the Italians collapse in North Africa that made it necessary for the Germans to divert much needed resources to the Med theater. On top of this it was also due to the Italian fiasco in Greece and Albania that forced the Germans to divert resources to the Balkans and more importantly pushed back the original start date of Operation Barbarossa from May to June. This delay meant that the Germans reached Moscow in a full blown Russian winter wile the Russians had time to bring reinforcements from Siberia along with evacuating a huge chunk if it's industrial capacity the safety of Urals. Had operation Barbarossa kicked off at the start of May as was originally intended, the Germans may have actually been able to take Moscow and force the Soviets to sue for peace. But by delaying it for that key month, they wasted any chance if victory they had.
This post was edited on 8/19/14 at 11:36 pm
Posted on 8/19/14 at 11:35 pm to Jim Rockford
I think the answer is fairly simple.
Germany should have captured the oil in the south rather than marching to Moscow/Stalingrad. They could have cut off the power in the country, rather than invading during the winter....which has never, ever been successful.
Germany should have captured the oil in the south rather than marching to Moscow/Stalingrad. They could have cut off the power in the country, rather than invading during the winter....which has never, ever been successful.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 12:06 am to Jim Rockford
Dragging the US into the war and invading the Soviet Union were their two biggest blunders. Had the US never entered the war they would have been ok. Had they never invaded the Soviet Union, they probably would have held off or defeated the Allies in the west. And after the west was taken care of they would have taken over the Soviets pretty easily after building their forces back up. Their timing fricked them. People underestimate how powerful the German war machine was.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 12:07 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 1:09 am to Jim Rockford
Their inability to keep the Americans out of the war.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 1:17 am to Jim Rockford
Disagree about Spain. Spain was in shambles and would likely provide no help to the cause apart from being occupied. Occupying Spain would spread the Germans even more thin on all fronts making an invasion easier. Plus half of Spain would've sided with the allies. Allies would've probably skipped N Africa and Italy and started in Spain. Thus speeding up the process easing the eastern front and possibly making Normandy unnecessary.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 2:06 am to Jim Rockford
Once the allied forces were in place Germany won no more victories. Bringing Spain along would have been problematic but easily overcome.
US would have amassed troops in Eastern Eupore/Russia and marched West. France would have been liberated last and probably left in ruins but I don't really care.
German was the key. A single objective of invading Germany and driving a stake into the Axis power heart would have killed off Italy and the African campaigns. Japan would still need to be dealt with.
Remember we had the A bomb first. We could have nuked Berlin as well.
In short, Hitler had no real chance. Too many fronts to defend against a superior enemy.
US would have amassed troops in Eastern Eupore/Russia and marched West. France would have been liberated last and probably left in ruins but I don't really care.
German was the key. A single objective of invading Germany and driving a stake into the Axis power heart would have killed off Italy and the African campaigns. Japan would still need to be dealt with.
Remember we had the A bomb first. We could have nuked Berlin as well.
In short, Hitler had no real chance. Too many fronts to defend against a superior enemy.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 3:11 am to Jim Rockford
It was opening up 2 fronts and having to split his forces.
Hitlers hard on to take Stalingrad when he was 20 miles from Moscow.
Declaring war on america after japan bombed pearl harbor.
To much command had to go through him he did not trust his field generals.
His fascination with the occult and bigger is better machinery.
His fascination with taking on the RAF and bombing Britain.
Hitlers hard on to take Stalingrad when he was 20 miles from Moscow.
Declaring war on america after japan bombed pearl harbor.
To much command had to go through him he did not trust his field generals.
His fascination with the occult and bigger is better machinery.
His fascination with taking on the RAF and bombing Britain.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 6:18 am to Jim Rockford
Declaring war on the USA.
Posted on 8/20/14 at 6:20 am to Jim Rockford
Biggest blunder was not keeping germany in check when it came to pearl harbor
We were doing our best to stay out of the situation
Things may have been different if germany could have 12-24 additional months to gain strength before US enters picture
We were doing our best to stay out of the situation
Things may have been different if germany could have 12-24 additional months to gain strength before US enters picture
Posted on 8/20/14 at 6:42 am to Jim Rockford
I would argue the main reason and one that gets little play for not only Germany but also Japans defeat is oil. Hitler fricked up when he split his forces in Russia, sending the bulk to Stalingrad and the rest south to take the oil fields in and around Baku. They ended up getting tied down in the mountains and never made it to the oil. Hitler should have sent all his forces straight there and saved Stalingrad for after winter.
Also the main reason for Japan bombing PH was oil and there blunder of not hitting our oil storages when they did attack was a huge saving grace for us. They needed the British oil in Burma and the Indies and they assumed the US would be entering the war and knew that the pacific fleet would make it near impossible for them to transport the oil back to Japan.
Also the main reason for Japan bombing PH was oil and there blunder of not hitting our oil storages when they did attack was a huge saving grace for us. They needed the British oil in Burma and the Indies and they assumed the US would be entering the war and knew that the pacific fleet would make it near impossible for them to transport the oil back to Japan.
This post was edited on 8/20/14 at 6:44 am
Posted on 8/20/14 at 7:03 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
A fully Axis Spain gives Germany control of virtually the entire Mediterranean, cutting Britain off from the Middle East, India, and the southern supply route to Russia through Iran. Game over.
True, but one can't forget that a major blunder was their shift from hitting Britain's military targets to population centers. They had the RAF on the ropes and almost completely destroyed, yet they stopped attacking the airfields/radar installations. There is no need to discuss getting involved in Russia, because that is well-known.
Another thing is Hitler's use of weapons (or misuse). The Me262 is a perfect example of this. They had the perfect weapon to change the tide in the air, yet Hitler wanted it used more in the bomber role. There are a host of other mistakes made, though...
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News