re: DC’s Film and TV Universes Will Stay Separate

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I saw the Flash pilot, it was meh.

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arrow is awesome you're missing out

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I forgot about Daredevil. That one looks good. Is it going to tie into the movies?

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Loosely. Daredevil was only an Avenger for an extremely short amount of time. The whole point of his book is Hell's Kitchen, which makes it best for a TV show. I'm sure we'll get fun mentions and stuff.

I assume that if it's super popular Marvel would bring it out to a full film.

I'm a DC junkie and I passed on Arrow on the first viewing. Once all of the other superheroes began to show up I gave it another chance. Best second chance ever.

They're not making the same mistake with Flash. That series is starting at full speed (pun intended).

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they are REALLY trying to distance themselves from Marvel. That's either incredibly stupid, because what Marvel has done prints money

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this reeks of ignorance of DC's history. DC's television properties have been WILDLY successful. Arrow is climbing the charts at a very steady pace and gaining more and more viewers. why? the biggest reason is its completely free from comics and movies. as a creator, you can tell the stories YOU want to tell. you have no other outside stories to bog you down.

so youd rather them abandon their proven television model and follow marvel's shakey tv one? shield for the most part was not very good.

if you watch arrow, you know this is a good thing and should get people excited for their television properties.

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I've tried to watch it. I've gotten to like episode 6. It's OK, I just can't get into it. I'll keep trying. Flash was just too cheesy for me. Maybe it'll get better.

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The first 12 or so episodes of Arrow are...well not good....the last 6 or 7 of season one and the entire season 2 of Arrow is the best show on tv right now.

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this reeks of ignorance of DC's history. DC's television properties have been WILDLY successful.

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I wouldn't say wildly. And I know quite a few comics fans that hated Smallville, or at least half of the show. And this comment DOES NOT count their animated shows. Those don't come into play for this. AND we're talking about NOW, not Smallville, Adventures of Lois and Clark or any other property.

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Arrow is climbing the charts at a very steady pace and gaining more and more viewers. why? the biggest reason is its completely free from comics and movies. as a creator, you can tell the stories YOU want to tell. you have no other outside stories to bog you down.

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#1 - I wouldn't disagree. It's a different take. And this:

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why? the biggest reason is its completely free from comics and movies. as a creator, you can tell the stories YOU want to tell. you have no other outside stories to bog you down.

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Is not the answer to the question you propose. We have 0 evidence of that.

#2 - You act like there's a long history of this. Marvel's movies date back to 2005. THIS new run for DC is only as old as Man of Steel and Arrow. That's it. That's the base. There was plenty enough room to include Arrow in the JL. And Marvel showed that it both could be done and could be done successfully. There was either fear beforehand or lack of foresight to do something like this.

#3 - Again, Wildly Successful?

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Arrow Ratings Hit Series Low While Fans Gush Over "The Promise"

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LINK

Arrow

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Season averages 0.91 -13.29% 2.62 -18.48%

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Those are DOWN from last year. How do you build an audience with less viewers than you had before?

SHIELD

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Season averages 2.40 6.86

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LINK

The thing is, people want it. There's a reason Marvel is setting up 7 movies over the next 5 years. People want grand narratives (see the run of TV shows that are far more interconnected), they want big stories, lots of characters, large arcs, etc. At least, that's what Marvel's success tells us. That's all my comment means.

Maybe there are two sides to this, we don't know, but if SHIELD, a lesser show I admit right now, is beating Arrow....

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so youd rather them abandon their proven television model and follow marvel's shakey tv one? shield for the most part was not very good.

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Abandon what? Arrow is the only show that would have come into play. There's no "current" strategy. There's no "long running strategy." And they obviously have plans to create worlds. They are taking on part of Marvel's strategy by combining Arrow and Flash. Right? They've never done that outside of the Animated series. If they had a

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proven television model

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Flash would have never showed up in Arrow to then get his own show. Right?

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if you watch arrow, you know this is a good thing and should get people excited for their television properties.

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My favorite show on television.

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There was either fear beforehand or lack of foresight to do something like this.

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Those are the two options? If they don't ape their competition then they're either too afraid or they have a lack of foresight?

How about they looked at Marvel's plan and saw that they could go a different route and take full advantage of their cast of characters and expand into television at a much quicker pace than Marvel? They could also take make full use of their most valuable movie property (Batman) and run a TV series that gives both the television and movie creators full rein.

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The thing is, people want it. There's a reason Marvel is setting up 7 movies over the next 5 years. People want grand narratives (see the run of TV shows that are far more interconnected), they want big stories, lots of characters, large arcs, etc. At least, that's what Marvel's success tells us.

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Except when it comes to television. The bulk of SHEILD's season was spent avoiding ties to the films. One appearance by a supporting character from Thor before we finally were able to see Fury and a tie-in to Winter Soldier at the season's end. If they had been allowed to bring in superheroes and villains it would've been a much better series. But Marvel is dipping their toe into television while DC is expanding at a quick pace.

I've got a feeling this one is gonna go on for a while.

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Those are the two options? If they don't ape their competition then they're either too afraid or they have a lack of foresight?

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Not DC alone, everyone in television. We saw a progression of narrative structure and overall complexity from things like Twin Peaks to the X-Files to Lost. These are grand stories with big consequences straddling multiple seasons and mediums (see the X-Files film, the Twin Peaks film, etc.)

People we either afraid to do it, afraid of committing resources to it, or didn't think it would be popular (lack of foresight). So yeah, there are only a few reasons you wouldn't do something like that.

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How about they looked at Marvel's plan and saw that they could go a different route and take full advantage of their cast of characters and expand into television at a much quicker pace than Marvel?

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That's my exact point. They looked at Marvel's plan and said they were going to be different. It's either super smart or super dumb because Marvel has made a buttload of cash and has built a cross-cultural fanbase. If I would have told you 15 years ago that Marvel would release Iron Man films and Captain America films that outdraw a Superman movie, would you have believed me? And they did it with quality, satisfying casual fans and comic book nerds, all with a singular universe.

Of course they can do something different. Of course they CAN be successful at it. But if they aren't people will always wonder the other way around.

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They could also take make full use of their most valuable movie property (Batman) and run a TV series that gives both the television and movie creators full rein.

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Right. And that CAN be a weakness because it's devoting double the resources to Batman and not really taking chances on something else, or exploring different stories. We just get more and more Batman. People are already complaining about super hero movies, what's going to happen if we have:

Batman in the Justice League Movies/Solo Movies
Batman as a KId in Gotham
Saved by the Bell: The Batman Years
Batman: The Animated Series Returns

And so forth.

Again, that's fine, it's a gamble. It's different than taking a chance on a C-List property and seeing what happens. And it could pay off.

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Except when it comes to television. The bulk of SHEILD's season was spent avoiding ties to the films. One appearance by a supporting character from Thor before we finally were able to see Fury and a tie-in to Winter Soldier at the season's end. If they had been allowed to bring in superheroes and villains it would've been a much better series.

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They didn't do it because they couldn't, they didn't bring in too many heroes because they had to build a narrative that didn't rely on too many heroes. Regardless of the quality of the first half, which was bad, how they brought in Deathlock was great. I loved that part. I don't think we'll ever see him in a film, but it was a good storyline. And it gave them a good base to work from.

It ended on a strong note and has a chance to have an identity that's separate too, but in the same universe as, the movies. It may continue to work, it may flop, time will tell.

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But Marvel is dipping their toe into television while DC is expanding at a quick pace.

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Right. This doesn't change anything we have said.