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re: Why is this organization digging themselves in such a deep hole?
Posted on 7/1/14 at 10:47 am to TigerinATL
Posted on 7/1/14 at 10:47 am to TigerinATL
For every Lebron or Dwight there's a Duncan, Kobe, Durant, Dirk, Wade, Parker.. farther back in time you have Mike, Bird, Magic, Isaiah, Hakeem, etc etc etc
Dwight and Lequit are more exceptions than the rule. History favors me.
Sorry, i'm not a fan of Les Miles in college football either and I hate the defeatist mentality that has infected half of the LSU fanbase. I would hate it to infect the Pelicans fans too. I like for my teams to give it all to be the best.
Dwight and Lequit are more exceptions than the rule. History favors me.
Sorry, i'm not a fan of Les Miles in college football either and I hate the defeatist mentality that has infected half of the LSU fanbase. I would hate it to infect the Pelicans fans too. I like for my teams to give it all to be the best.
This post was edited on 7/1/14 at 1:45 pm
1
Posted on 7/1/14 at 10:59 am to Mack
quote:
For every Lebron or Dwight there's a Duncan, Kobe, Durant...
It may be a little early on Durant. He's a FA in 2016. The Nets and a few other teams are rumored to be clearing cap space to make a run at him then.
And I'm not sure OKC can afford Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka and get pieces in the West to compete for a championship.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 2:05 pm to TigerinATL
grizzlies are an excellent example...i'd be thrilled to be a part of what they've had the last few years
i didnt agree with trading for holiday, and i didnt agree with over paying evans to come here. i wanted to make one more draft pick and see what happened then
however, that may be just being risk-averse.
found this on the sbnation blog, it's long, but it is well argued:
LINK
i didnt agree with trading for holiday, and i didnt agree with over paying evans to come here. i wanted to make one more draft pick and see what happened then
however, that may be just being risk-averse.
found this on the sbnation blog, it's long, but it is well argued:
quote:
Benson is paying a $6.7 Million “Luxury Tax” for Omer Asik this season, as his cap number is only $8.3M yet the actual money going out of Benson’s pocket is $15M. Even if Demps strips this roster to the bare bones and fills it with minimum players Benson pays nearly $70M in salaries.
Benson employs the most expensive professional coach in all American sports.
Why should I believe Benson won’t spend? Because he doesn’t think a winning product balances the books? He has ample evidence (and the fact that I am currently 40,396th on the waiting list) next door that winning absolutely does balance the budget of a sports franchise. He isn’t looking to sell this franchise, he is looking to pass it down to his granddaughter.
I firmly disagree with the expectation that this is the best roster the Pelicans will put around Davis. Asik will sign a contract in the range of Tiago Splitter’s or his own previous contract next summer. $8-9 Million. Even if Asik is signed for $10 Million next season (with a decreasing contract, a la Splitter, or Ryan Anderson, or Tyreke Evans) the Pelicans look like this…
Gordon, Holiday, Evans, Anderson, Davis, Asik, Rivers – $66M.
The cap is projected to be $66M. Why do the Pelicans need to spend big on more role players? Have we learned nothing from Demps pulling adequate rotation players on minimum contracts from Europe?
2016-2017, Pelicans have Holiday, Evans, Davis (at max, let’s say that’s $18M), and Asik. So just under $50M committed to four players.
Holiday – Age 26
Evans – Age 27
Davis – Age 23
Asik – Age 30
They have $15-20 Million in cap space and the 2016 First Round Draft Pick. I just don’t see any reason to panic. If I have to pick between an actual NBA player who is young and could develop or a completely unproven player who could develop I want the player.
You use the 76ers as an example. Would you buy season tickets to that this year? What about next? How long can a franchise sell “hope”? They do not have a star yet on that roster. They don’t even have an above average starter. The Pelicans have FIVE players who are above average starters (Holiday, Evans, Asik, Anderson) or superstars (Davis). Right now.
As I stated before, the adjectives are what bother me most of all. I disagree with the tone. We obviously disagree with how we believe a team should be built.
You use Minnesota as an example. They didn’t go big early, they didn’t chase free agents. They went into the lottery over and over again. It shouldn’t be the case against the Pelicans method. It is the case FOR the Pelicans method.
Minnesota got Kevin Love in 2008. In 2009 they selected 5th (Ricky Rubio), 6th (Jonny Flynn), 18th (Ty Lawson), and 28th (Wayne Ellington). They traded the 18th pick for a future pick (hey, more assets!!) In 2010 they selected 4th (Wesley Johnson) and 30th (Lazar Hayward). In 2011 they selected 2nd (Derrick Williams).
In four seasons the Timberwolves had FIVE lottery picks (Love, Rubio, Flynn, Johnson, Williams) and EIGHT first rounders (Lawson, Ellington, Hayward). You look at where they are now and say, “man, we need to build through the draft with young guys that COULD become something?” That is foolish! The evidence of how “future assets” turn bad is the example you are pointing to. You are literally proving the point that the draft is an absolute crap shoot. There is one OKC. Then there is Sacramento, and Minnesota, and Cleveland, and Detroit.
Heck, Charlotte (Zeller, then Vonleh) and Sacramento (McLemore, then Stauskas) just drafted the same position in BACK TO BACK lotteries. Because the draft is a crap shoot and even when a guy has the physical tools or the game tape or whatever they still might bust.
LINK
This post was edited on 7/1/14 at 2:07 pm
Posted on 7/1/14 at 2:36 pm to cgrand
i love that minny/charlotte discussion
building through the draft is super duper rare and very difficult
building through the draft is super duper rare and very difficult
Posted on 7/1/14 at 2:41 pm to cgrand
Great article.
I like this part..
Is there a team besides OKC that has been successful drafting high multiple years in a row?
IMO, OKC skewed people's perception. Obviously if you hit on a Durant, Westbrook & Harden 3 years in a row, you'll be a good team (throw Ibaka in there too). But how often does that happen?
I think we will see down the road that Philly's strategy won't turn out as planned. I could be dead wrong, but I like the signing young veterans approach as opposed to being in the top 10 of the draft year after year.
I like this part..
quote:
You use Minnesota as an example. They didn’t go big early, they didn’t chase free agents. They went into the lottery over and over again. It shouldn’t be the case against the Pelicans method. It is the case FOR the Pelicans method.
Is there a team besides OKC that has been successful drafting high multiple years in a row?
IMO, OKC skewed people's perception. Obviously if you hit on a Durant, Westbrook & Harden 3 years in a row, you'll be a good team (throw Ibaka in there too). But how often does that happen?
I think we will see down the road that Philly's strategy won't turn out as planned. I could be dead wrong, but I like the signing young veterans approach as opposed to being in the top 10 of the draft year after year.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 2:45 pm to burdman
quote:
Is there a team besides OKC that has been successful drafting high multiple years in a row?
golden state
curry, thompson, barnes, green, ezeli
then traded for bogut & lee, iggy in FA (traded salary and picks to clear room)
Posted on 7/1/14 at 2:50 pm to cgrand
quote:
golden state
Good point.
Couldn't think of anyone besides OKC.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 2:54 pm to cgrand
quote:
golden state
quote:
curry
I still have a flashback of how dumb Minnesota was for taking Jonny Flynn over this guy.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 4:07 pm to burdman
quote:
I like this part..
It's a fair point. Same time, was there any strategy that would have worked in Minnesota? That is, was the front office so inept it wouldn't have mattered what tactic they chose?
You have teams like GSW (mentioned above), Indiana, and Chicago that have consistently drafted well in lower spots the past few years. Is that luck or a team that knows what it is doing?
And this point gets confused so often, but it's important: No one builds their team entirely through the draft. You have to find competent FA or make smart trades. Saying "build through the draft" does not mean every player or every star player must have been drafted by a team. To me it means maxing out those valuable assets.
Tons of ways to build. They all require smart decisions and a frickton of luck.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 4:18 pm to corndeaux
i am convinced that part of trading picks for players is that GM's are afraid to make draft picks...which i guess comes back to the point that the draft is a crapshoot, at least for the "average" GM
so...you either have a front office that nails the draft, or you trade the picks
using the picks and crapping out is the worst case scenario
so...you either have a front office that nails the draft, or you trade the picks
using the picks and crapping out is the worst case scenario
Posted on 7/1/14 at 4:23 pm to cgrand
Gordon is overpaid, but if I had to guess he is also an above average starter.
Posted on 7/1/14 at 4:31 pm to Colonel Flagg
quote:
Gordon is overpaid, but if I had to guess he is also an above average starter.
he's luke ridnour with bad knees
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:06 am to Tiger Nation 84
stick to football champ
or at least read/watch up more please... org isn't digging a hole at all
or at least read/watch up more please... org isn't digging a hole at all
Posted on 7/2/14 at 12:18 am to Colonel Flagg
quote:
Gordon is overpaid, but if I had to guess he is also an above average starter.
This past season, ignoring the games that he missed, Gordon was an average SG. Probably in the 13-17 range of starting SGs. Which would make him average at probably the second weakest position in the NBA.
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