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Message
re: So my daughter has received interest from an Ivy League school
Posted on 4/22/14 at 10:52 am to anc
Posted on 4/22/14 at 10:52 am to anc
quote:
Definitely. We were just going by what the high school counselor was saying. I've read enough here and online to figure out that "qualified and invited to apply" doesn't mean squat. I did not know that when I started this thread.
But she's a strong prospect if she wants to go that route. If not, she has great options down South as well. Thanks.
Just so that you know, all colleges buy list from the PSAT and cross-reference it with databases such as Acxiom to determine who is the best fit for their programs. Some schools do this with a science to limit applications and run the most efficient recruiting budget. Others have the opposite strategy - get everyone to apply so that the yield percentages are much lower.
In short, getting a letter from a school means very little right now other than being on the school's radar. The radar is defined by how each schools sets criteria (scores, household income, race, etc).
I think some of this will come as a surprise to those who are not familiar with the list-buying process....
0
Posted on 4/22/14 at 10:55 am to anc
Liberal Arts are phenomenal at Princeton. Send her there and suggest she study English or something comparable while taking the med school pre-req courses. If her grades are good and MCAT scores high, she will have her choice of med schools. Med Schools increasingly admit students with diverse undergrad majors outside the hard sciences.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 11:17 am to MetArl15
quote:
If her grades are good and MCAT scores high, she will have her choice of med schools. Med Schools increasingly admit students with diverse undergrad majors outside the hard sciences.
Absolutely. I would say that if there are two applicants with identical MCAT and GPA and went to similar tier undergrads, they'd be more likely to go with the English major than just another run of the mill Biology guy
Posted on 4/22/14 at 11:18 am to Keys Open Doors
quote:Those profs should have been severely reprimanded (at the least),and Richard Brodhead should have been fired. The whole episode was handled with incredible incompetence from the University's end. There was no excuse for actions taken by University representatives. Duke dropped from #4 among America' s Best Colleges all the way to #10. It is just now recovering.
There was a huge controversy at my college about a statement signed by 88 professors
Posted on 4/22/14 at 11:45 am to NC_Tigah
The ones with tenure are untouchable unless they do something terrible like coerce a student into sex. However, many of the 88 were instructors or without tenure. I know that even still, they can't be fired for future recruiting efforts of faculty in the humanities, but I thought the administration response (outside of the Econ Department and a handful of faculty who made their own statements) was shameful.
They definitely lost a ton of money from donors between 2006 and 2010, and John Mack (former Morgan Stanley head) was crucial in keeping ties between the school and wealthy parents from NY, NJ, and CT. Ironically the lacrosse program never took a hit and has been the most dominant in the country for a full decade, while I agree that the school is just now getting back to its place on US News.
They definitely lost a ton of money from donors between 2006 and 2010, and John Mack (former Morgan Stanley head) was crucial in keeping ties between the school and wealthy parents from NY, NJ, and CT. Ironically the lacrosse program never took a hit and has been the most dominant in the country for a full decade, while I agree that the school is just now getting back to its place on US News.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 11:58 am to anc
quote:
I had to go to a shitty school like MSU. She doesn't. I have always told her that she is not limited to MSU or Ole Miss, and if anything, I have had a bias against that. I grew up dirt poor and in a shithole small town. First in my family to go to college. MSU served me well enough to change my family tree. But I am still ignorant when it comes to selective college admission procedures. I do know this, by the end of 2014, I will be an expert.
Here's my take on the Public Flagship versus Private School debate.
It is damn hard to get a 3.85+ at the top public school in any state, and it isn't fair to call MSU, Ole Miss, LSU, or any other school like that sub-par. However, degrees from those schools will unfortunately have a limit on the jobs one can get after graduation, from a geographic perspective. That problem will go away when it comes to students who go to top law schools or med schools, but it's a lot harder to overcome in the business world.
The most interesting jobs are often in cities like NYC, Houston, SF, LA, DC, and Chicago. Southern state schools don't have a strong presence in any of those areas besides Houston. Here's an anecdote. I interned in DC my junior year in the mid-2000s. I stayed with a friend from my college and a random roommate from Kansas who went to KU. He was a cool dude and we hung out a lot, the three of us. Maybe half the time we went to a bar, rode the metro, did something touristic, we would run into someone we knew from college, without planning it. The guy from KU never saw anyone. After about a week, he remarked that he didn't realize how limited his friend's options were until meeting us. Most of his friends were seeking jobs in Kansas City, and I'm sure they had no trouble. However, he was the only guy he knew in NYC, DC, or Chicago from his group of 15-20 friends. I think that story can be told over and over again with students from other large state schools.
If you want to stay local, that's not a problem. But if you'd like to explore more and see if there's a region you'd like more, it can be a problem. After all, many of those random interns end up staying in DC, working for law firms, NGOs, and consulting companies, settling down and eventually hiring 20-year old interns themselves.
I think a good education can be had at any top state school or private college. The kids in the top 10 percent at either are going to be very good. However, I also think that the workload for the kids in the top quarter of their respective classes is higher at private schools. Until you get to the bottom 20 percent of the class (recruited athletes, a few Affirmative Action people, and development admits), it is really a loaded group.
Seeing how much my friends and acquaintances studied at schools like Ohio State and LSU to get a 3.5-3.7 would reinforce my beliefs.
This post was edited on 4/22/14 at 11:59 am
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:17 pm to Keys Open Doors
Now for some random advice that may come in handy.
1) you said your daughter got a 33 on the ACT and then a 35. Did she take the PSAT? If so, I bet she got over a 208. That means she will be a National Merit semi finalist. With decent grades and no suspensions, she will be a finalist, too. COLLEGES LOVE NATIONAL MERIT FINALISTS.
Granted I went through the process when the economy was stronger and there weren't budget cuts in education, but I got 100K on the spot from USC (LA), and basically no tuition at schools like Florida, A&M, and LSU. I wouldn't be surprised if regional private schools would give similar offers to your kid. Also, she will probably get money to go to Ole miss or MSU. I think LSU was offering free laptops, but that might have changed after the Recession.
2) 35 ACTs in Mississippi don't grow on trees. Your kid has a great shot at getting in to a top 10 school. I wouldn't bet on any one specific school since it is such a crapshoot, but apply to 4 or 5, and if she is in the top 3 percent of her class with those board scores, the odds are high. This will sound counterintuitive and fricked up, but the only way she would have a guaranteed spot at Princeton is if she was an Under Armor Lacrosse All American or if your last name was on a building, but don't undersell it either, especially if she has straight A's.
3) if you live in a rural area (let's define that as somewhere under 50,000 people), even better. Colleges love that. They even have a phrase for it "Rural Vals". Those are not as in demand as a black kid with a top SAT, but not too far off. My freshman roommate was a "rural val" and even though he was rich as hell, he got in with scores below the median.
4) Ivy League schools are not lying when they say they want intelligent kids for the working class. I believe anyone who gets into Harvard with a parental income below six figures pays no tuition for 4 years although I'm not positve. Harvard and Princeton can be more affordable than public schools in these weird instances. Most people are completely shocked by this.
5) look to see if the schools your kid is interested in require the SAT. Back when I applied, they didn't. You took either test and they had a conversion scale. I got the SAT I wanted and never even looked at the ACT. Her ACT is so high that it will be hard to beat on the SAT. if it isn't required, I don't see how much taking the SAT will help. But definitely make sure it isn't required. These things change so randomly, but a decade ago, only one of the two tests was required and I heard from the mouth of the Yale admissions director, in front of maybe 200 people, that they didn't care which test it was.
1) you said your daughter got a 33 on the ACT and then a 35. Did she take the PSAT? If so, I bet she got over a 208. That means she will be a National Merit semi finalist. With decent grades and no suspensions, she will be a finalist, too. COLLEGES LOVE NATIONAL MERIT FINALISTS.
Granted I went through the process when the economy was stronger and there weren't budget cuts in education, but I got 100K on the spot from USC (LA), and basically no tuition at schools like Florida, A&M, and LSU. I wouldn't be surprised if regional private schools would give similar offers to your kid. Also, she will probably get money to go to Ole miss or MSU. I think LSU was offering free laptops, but that might have changed after the Recession.
2) 35 ACTs in Mississippi don't grow on trees. Your kid has a great shot at getting in to a top 10 school. I wouldn't bet on any one specific school since it is such a crapshoot, but apply to 4 or 5, and if she is in the top 3 percent of her class with those board scores, the odds are high. This will sound counterintuitive and fricked up, but the only way she would have a guaranteed spot at Princeton is if she was an Under Armor Lacrosse All American or if your last name was on a building, but don't undersell it either, especially if she has straight A's.
3) if you live in a rural area (let's define that as somewhere under 50,000 people), even better. Colleges love that. They even have a phrase for it "Rural Vals". Those are not as in demand as a black kid with a top SAT, but not too far off. My freshman roommate was a "rural val" and even though he was rich as hell, he got in with scores below the median.
4) Ivy League schools are not lying when they say they want intelligent kids for the working class. I believe anyone who gets into Harvard with a parental income below six figures pays no tuition for 4 years although I'm not positve. Harvard and Princeton can be more affordable than public schools in these weird instances. Most people are completely shocked by this.
5) look to see if the schools your kid is interested in require the SAT. Back when I applied, they didn't. You took either test and they had a conversion scale. I got the SAT I wanted and never even looked at the ACT. Her ACT is so high that it will be hard to beat on the SAT. if it isn't required, I don't see how much taking the SAT will help. But definitely make sure it isn't required. These things change so randomly, but a decade ago, only one of the two tests was required and I heard from the mouth of the Yale admissions director, in front of maybe 200 people, that they didn't care which test it was.
This post was edited on 4/22/14 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:25 pm to Keys Open Doors
1) She hasn't got her PSAT score back but it should be soon. 205 is the historical number for Mississippi. We dumb.
2) I've learned that in the last 24 hours. If she's going to apply to Princeton. She needs to apply to Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Cornell, et al.
3) Definitely a rural val.
4) That's what started all of this. I plugged our numbers in and at low six figures, our expected family contribution was a very manageable $7k. That floored me.
5) She's got to take two SAT subject tests in May and June. They told her the ACT was fine, but she still had to take the subject tests.
2) I've learned that in the last 24 hours. If she's going to apply to Princeton. She needs to apply to Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Cornell, et al.
3) Definitely a rural val.
4) That's what started all of this. I plugged our numbers in and at low six figures, our expected family contribution was a very manageable $7k. That floored me.
5) She's got to take two SAT subject tests in May and June. They told her the ACT was fine, but she still had to take the subject tests.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:26 pm to Keys Open Doors
quote:
I believe anyone who gets into Harvard with a parental income below six figures pays no tuition for 4 years although I'm not positve
I think its lower than that (~70K) but you get tuition and COL free.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:42 pm to anc
quote:
She hasn't got her PSAT score back but it should be soon.
Did they change the dates? We took that back in October and it came in before Christmas break. However, the test results got quarantined because it got caught in the same batch with the anthrax that was sent to the White House. Otherwise it would have been even sooner, I bet. One thing about Princeton, and this is something I won't stand by with the same amount of confidence of basically everything else I've written, is that it seems a little more closed off to outsiders than its peers. I'm referring to the Eating Club system that Woodrow Wilson hated and tried to dissolve. Most colleges are set up in a way where the kings of the campus are the varsity athletes and wealthy guys from traditional feeder areas, but the Eating Clubs seem to make that a bigger factor at Princeton.
I could be wrong though.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:45 pm to anc
quote:
The Ivy league schools are true bastions of liberalism.
Yes - you should deny your daughter a shot at a world class education - because you're afraid they'll read "Heather Has Two Mommies" to her.
That's fair.
This post was edited on 4/22/14 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:47 pm to Keys Open Doors
Everything we have been told says the scores will be available in April. A friend in a neighboring school district got theirs back last week so it should be soon.
I've got a lot to learn.
I've got a lot to learn.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:47 pm to anc
As a general rule private school tuition isn't worth the extra price. There are exceptions, however. Princeton is one of them.
This post was edited on 4/22/14 at 12:49 pm
Posted on 4/22/14 at 12:50 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
Yes - you should deny your daughter a shot at a world class education - because you're afraid they'll read "Heather Has Two Mommies" to her. That's fair.
There have been many intelligent and thought-provoking posts in this thread.
Yours wasnt one of them
Posted on 4/22/14 at 1:14 pm to anc
$7000/year is nothing for a Princeton education. LSU is what, 5-6k?
Posted on 4/22/14 at 1:33 pm to aaronb023
quote:
$7000/year is nothing for a Princeton education. LSU is what, 5-6k?
This
Posted on 4/22/14 at 1:48 pm to Rawdawgs
Studies have shown that there is a significant difference in income between the average graduate from an Ivy League school vs the average graduate from a state school.
However, there is NO difference between graduates from Ivy League schools and graduates from state schools who were also accepted to Ivy League schools. In other words, the cream of the crop will rise to the top, no matter what school they go to.
Ivy League Myth
However, there is NO difference between graduates from Ivy League schools and graduates from state schools who were also accepted to Ivy League schools. In other words, the cream of the crop will rise to the top, no matter what school they go to.
Ivy League Myth
This post was edited on 4/22/14 at 1:49 pm
Posted on 4/22/14 at 1:57 pm to Jax-Tiger
quote:
However, there is NO difference between graduates from Ivy League schools and graduates from state schools who were also accepted to Ivy League schools. In other words, the cream of the crop will rise to the top, no matter what school they go to.
Couldn't agree more. The Salutatorian at BRMHS a few yrs before I graduated was an absolute beast. Could have gone to anywhere in the country but chose LSU because he was pretty much going to get paid like an athlete
Last I heard from him, he got a 41 on his MCAT and is doing an MD PhD at a top-10 med school. This was also a point I bring up in affirmative action discussions. I am a firm believe that no one becomes successful because of AA. Sure, maybe you got an opportunity you "didn't deserve," but if you are lazy and don't take advantage of it, you will fall right back into mediocrity. But those with the drive and work ethic to succeed, will find a way to succeed regardless. Period.
Posted on 4/22/14 at 3:24 pm to anc
quote:
I had to go to a shitty school like MSU. She doesn't. I have always told her that she is not limited to MSU or Ole Miss, and if anything, I have had a bias against that. I grew up dirt poor and in a shithole small town. First in my family to go to college. MSU served me well enough to change my family tree. But I am still ignorant when it comes to selective college admission procedures. I do know this, by the end of 2014, I will be an expert.
anc,
My daughter is going through a similar process and has the same grades it appears as yours. Plus, they are looking at the same schools....Vandy and Rhodes-type schools. I will be glad to share any information with you my wife and I have learned in the past 8 months on this process. Drop an e-mail address if interested. I am sure you have a few facts to help us out also.
This post was edited on 4/22/14 at 3:29 pm
Posted on 4/22/14 at 3:47 pm to Alltheway Tigers!
PSAT scores should have been out for a few months now. They release the qualifying score for each state next September. If anyone is telling you that scores aren't out, someone isn't doing their job. They released them to high schools in like December.
Mississippi had a cutoff of 207 last year. Don't assume she'll break it. My sophomore year I got like a 170 on the PSAT. The next year I had a 35 on the ACT, and then a 210 on the PSAT, one point above the Louisiana cutoff. I followed that up with a 2000 SAT (which you have to take to confirm your PSAT score if you beat the cutoff). My SAT score is equivalent to like a 30 on the ACT. You can be great at one, but not the other.
If you want to get knowledgeable, go to talk.collegeconfidential.com, and read those boards, a lot. It will be very intimidating seeing the high school superstars out there, but it is the BEST source of information out there for selective college admissions, period. They have boards for specific tests, which your daughter should read before she takes any SAT subject tests. There is so much information there that I can't recommend it enough.
National Merit FAQ: LINK
Mississippi had a cutoff of 207 last year. Don't assume she'll break it. My sophomore year I got like a 170 on the PSAT. The next year I had a 35 on the ACT, and then a 210 on the PSAT, one point above the Louisiana cutoff. I followed that up with a 2000 SAT (which you have to take to confirm your PSAT score if you beat the cutoff). My SAT score is equivalent to like a 30 on the ACT. You can be great at one, but not the other.
If you want to get knowledgeable, go to talk.collegeconfidential.com, and read those boards, a lot. It will be very intimidating seeing the high school superstars out there, but it is the BEST source of information out there for selective college admissions, period. They have boards for specific tests, which your daughter should read before she takes any SAT subject tests. There is so much information there that I can't recommend it enough.
National Merit FAQ: LINK
This post was edited on 4/22/14 at 3:48 pm
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