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re: Europa League winners could earn Champions League place
Posted on 5/23/13 at 1:14 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 5/23/13 at 1:14 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
The last two seasons the loser of the FA Cup final decided to sack their manager before the game was even played and made it very clear that even if they had won it they still would be gone.
Well there were many more underlying issues that caused those firings. Mancini was an absolute idiot with a team that should have won the league by 10 points. Plus that's the nature of billionaire ownership. Kenny was always an interim manager for FSG (as much as we Scousers wished at the time that it wasn't true). I don't think it had anything to do with the tournament itself. I think that is proven by the fact that they would have gone despite what happened in the cup. Their performance in league play was pretty poor in both years.
quote:
Sure, winning the CL should be a bigger deal but I disagree that it should be more important to qualify for a tournament than it is to win your countries top level knockout cup.
Well qualification is the only way you have a shot at being the best team on the continent. Just as Olympic qualifiers are more important than country championships. You can't be the best if you're not even considered in the running.
This post was edited on 5/23/13 at 1:15 pm
1
Posted on 5/23/13 at 1:15 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Whatever... many thought he'd be (should be) given one more year...
But I guess I'll trust your straw poll as man on the streets... It's not like we cant follow Merseyside supporters and Journos on twitter, etc. to get a pulse of whats going on over there..
But I guess I'll trust your straw poll as man on the streets... It's not like we cant follow Merseyside supporters and Journos on twitter, etc. to get a pulse of whats going on over there..
This post was edited on 5/23/13 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 5/23/13 at 1:16 pm to BleedPurpleGold
quote:
Ideally I think the two that make the final should get spots, but one is definitely in the right direction. Maybe make the winner a group spot and the runner up a playoff spot.
It's a step in the right direction but giving 4 staggered CL spots to the semifinalists would assure that good sides put everything into it once they make it out of group play. Only 1 or 2 spots diminish the odds more than twofold and I think you'll still have the same attitudes toward the league.
It would simply make every round of Europa League much more entertaining and it actually improves CL since those 4 clubs would usually be a much bigger threat the following year with some clubs that fit the profile of Napoli, Tottenham, Atletico Madrid, Everton etc at least added into playoff rounds.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 1:18 pm to BleedPurpleGold
We disagree in premise which is fine. I just think it would be better for the sport and for the fans if the FA Cup winner got one of those spots. You obviously disagree. No point in debating it further because neither of us is going to change the other's mind.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 1:18 pm to wm72
quote:
Only 1 or 2 spots diminish the odds more than twofold and I think you'll still have the same attitudes toward the league.
Oh I agree, but I'm saying ideally for this next year that's what i would want to happen. 4 spots would be terrific as an ending point in the future, but I just don't think they'd be willing to take such a drastic step all at once.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 1:19 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Fair enough.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 1:20 pm to TFTC
quote:
But I guess I'll trust your straw poll as man on the streets
TV, radio and newspapers were pretty much all saying the same thing about it. I guess it's possible that it wouldn't have happened but it was expected.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 3:19 pm to Draconian Sanctions
So the "Magic" of the FA cup isn't real? Nooooooooooooo. Fwiw, I think it is highly regarded and what happened to Spurs last year was fair. Draconian also tried to get Tn Bhoy unbanned. Thank god chicken didnt cave.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 3:43 pm to Bho
Posted on 5/23/13 at 6:54 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Posted on 5/23/13 at 7:22 pm to DEANintheYAY
Verbal diarrea, with substance.
Europa League is a ploy to regain interest in UEFA Cup, vis a vis, a new name, and above all, getting lesser leagues into the fray.
Lesser leagues have patrons who passionately love their side (above all), and then have their major league side, whom they root for, once their side has been eliminated.
This changes nothing.
Winners are the also rans from major leagues, so their entry in CL makes no sense, from an originally intentioned ´let´s include the others´ argument.
Europa League should include the winners of the second división of major league countries. Get some slap down action going from the big boys of the small leagues, and if the second división boys make it out, then they´ll have their second ´dog´s day´,with regards to their respective country cups.
This widening the field, and watering down, is only adding fuel to the fire for the inevitable Super League.
Hell, early rounds of CL, including first stage knockouts, are FAR from the all absorbing European nights of old. It used to be that EVERYTHING stopped in European cities for a CL clash, now many a night, its business as usual.
Europa League is a ploy to regain interest in UEFA Cup, vis a vis, a new name, and above all, getting lesser leagues into the fray.
Lesser leagues have patrons who passionately love their side (above all), and then have their major league side, whom they root for, once their side has been eliminated.
This changes nothing.
Winners are the also rans from major leagues, so their entry in CL makes no sense, from an originally intentioned ´let´s include the others´ argument.
Europa League should include the winners of the second división of major league countries. Get some slap down action going from the big boys of the small leagues, and if the second división boys make it out, then they´ll have their second ´dog´s day´,with regards to their respective country cups.
This widening the field, and watering down, is only adding fuel to the fire for the inevitable Super League.
Hell, early rounds of CL, including first stage knockouts, are FAR from the all absorbing European nights of old. It used to be that EVERYTHING stopped in European cities for a CL clash, now many a night, its business as usual.
This post was edited on 5/23/13 at 7:37 pm
Posted on 5/23/13 at 7:34 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
I also think that the Champions League should mandate that all countries give their main cup winner a slot in the CL as well. At the group stage.
And why the frick would the UEFA get this?
Posted on 5/23/13 at 8:03 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
This widening the field, and watering down, is only adding fuel to the fire for the inevitable Super League.
Hell, early rounds of CL, including first stage knockouts, are FAR from the all absorbing European nights of old.
I see it a bit differently. First, the days of the champions only are long gone, regardless.
Furthermore, I think that the gap between the top few sides and even those clubs still among, say, the best 20 in Europe has actually led to CL being a bit less absorbing (until you get that one big match-up).
I think that some of the clubs along the lines of a Valencia, Fiorentina, the bigger French clubs etc could throw everything behind a EL run and ultimately get into CL once more on average in every 4 or so years. This would help them actually keep and attract players and do something toward the competitive gap that seems to keep widening.
Maybe, as you argue, that eventually leads to a "separation" of the 20-25 top clubs from the rest and does harkens toward a Super League. But, at least, that seems preferable to further ossifying the current separation between the top 6 or 8 and everyone else.
Just as significantly, it would make the CL LESS watered down. Of course, my preference would be ALL 4 Europa semifinalists getting into the next CL playoff rounds. Then you end up with a couple of more clubs like Atletico Madrid, Tottenham, Napoli etc getting into the group stages and there's more somewhat high profile, competitive matches.
Yeah, 3-4 smaller clubs would lose something if they got knocked out before group but at least they would have had a huge knockout tie against a big club and could get a Europa birth to compensate.
This post was edited on 5/23/13 at 8:07 pm
Posted on 5/23/13 at 8:10 pm to wm72
Good points.
In theory, yes. However, were they to do that, they´d slide to even having to fight for a Europa berth the following year.
It´s a ´ slippery slope ´.
quote:
I think that some of the clubs along the lines of a Valencia, Fiorentina, the bigger French clubs etc could throw everything behind a EL run and ultimately get into CL once more on average in every 4 or so years. This would help them actually keep and attract players and do something toward the competitive gap that seems to keep widening.
In theory, yes. However, were they to do that, they´d slide to even having to fight for a Europa berth the following year.
It´s a ´ slippery slope ´.
Posted on 5/23/13 at 8:41 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
In theory, yes. However, were they to do that, they´d slide to even having to fight for a Europa berth the following year.
It´s a ´ slippery slope ´.
Yeah, there's no perfect answer.
However, that it would give some small relief to that tier of traditional clubs in bigger leagues just below top 2-3 power clubs would be something in the right direction. They're the one's that are really in a tight spot with Europa League as it stands.
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