Should homosexuality be a protected class? - Page 9 - TigerDroppings.com

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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
33671 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

Thats crazy that you can fire someone for being gay. God, it's 2013. Prejudice has no place in today's society for religion, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation and probably other stuff.


crazy? I should be able to fire anyone for any reason I want...I own the business. But then again, if I'm making hiring positions for reasons other than finding the best person for the job, I probably won't be around long.






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Nuts4LSU
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
18174 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

the market has a much better chance at rectifying this situation vs. the government


Wrong. When the market was given a chance to do this, it failed. It took government intervention to stop it.

Back in the days of segregation, it was typical for African-Americans traveling long distances by car to be unable to find ANY place to stop and use the bathroom or ANY hotel to rent a room for the night. People routinely had to pull over and pee in the bushes or sleep in their cars because the market solution you are so confident of was nowhere to be found.

Freedom is a good thing, but in practically every instance in all of human history, when people have been given the freedom to harm others, at least some have always been willing and able to do it. That isn't likely to change any time soon, which is why anti-discrimination laws aren't likely to be repealed any time soon.






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DvlsAdvocat
Alabama Fan
Your Mom's House, AL
Member since Jul 2007
24491 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

If all private businesses were free to discriminate at will, then in theory every grocery store in the country could refuse to serve people of a given classsification. So what then? Do we just make them starve? Do we open government stores so they can shop there?


I assume that someone would come along and open a store that catered to the excluded class, since their money would spend the same as everyone else's.

quote:

Surely you can't be suggesting that absolute freedom to do whatever you want, no matter how much it harms someone else, would be a good thing.


I don't think anyone is advocating the freedom to beat the shite out of someone or firebomb their house. It isn't "causing harm" for a private commercial entity to deny service. The power of the dollar will usually cure those ills.






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Nuts4LSU
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
18174 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

I assume that someone would come along and open a store that catered to the excluded class, since their money would spend the same as everyone else's.


A false assumption. Where were the people to open hotels that would allow African-American guests when African-Americans were routinely having to sleep in their cars because they couldn't find one?

quote:

I don't think anyone is advocating the freedom to beat the shite out of someone or firebomb their house. It isn't "causing harm" for a private commercial entity to deny service


Yes it is, when our society depends almost entirely on private commercial entities to supply these services.

quote:

The power of the dollar will usually cure those ills.


It didn't before, and usually doesn't. The idea that the free market will solve everything has been proven wrong so many times it's surprising that people still even attempt to make that argument.



This post was edited on 3/25 at 5:58 pm


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DvlsAdvocat
Alabama Fan
Your Mom's House, AL
Member since Jul 2007
24491 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

Where were the people to open hotels that would allow African-American guests when African-Americans were routinely having to sleep in their cars because they couldn't find one?



Those places existed. Look it up. There were black businessmen who thrived in the South during those days. Were there enough? I'm sure there weren't. But if I'm planning on a trip through the middle of the desert, I'd make plans for my accommodations and water too...






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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

A false assumption. Where were the people to open hotels that would allow African-American guests when African-Americans were routinely having to sleep in their cars because they couldn't find one?

First, we shouldn't be comparing the treatment of African-Americans in this country to homosexuals. The disparity in historical discrimination isn't close. Secondly, the market did not provide for African-Americans in the 50s and 60s because, for the most part, African-Americans were very poor and unable to make purchases such as hotel rooms. Therefore, there was no incentive for an individual to cater to that section of the population.






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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
89786 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

The idea that the free market will solve everything has been proven wrong so many times it's surprising that people still even attempt to make that argument.


So has the idea that the government can fix it.






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cwill
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Jan 2005
23970 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

The idea that the free market will solve everything has been proven wrong so many times it's surprising that people still even attempt to make that argument.


Are you of the mistaken impression that we've ever had a free market?






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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

So has the idea that the government can fix it.

Government has done a decent job forcing states to allow blacks to participate in the political arena.






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Nuts4LSU
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
18174 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

So has the idea that the government can fix it.


The government fixed slavery, disenfrachisement of women and African-Americans, racial segregation, draconian state laws prohibiting contraception, interracial marriage and a multitude of other things. The Constitution is there to protect people from the majority of their peers by setting limits on what the majority is allowed to do.






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Nuts4LSU
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
18174 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

Are you of the mistaken impression that we've ever had a free market?


Of course we've never been stupid enough to have a completely free market, but there is, and has been in the past, a fairly high degree of freedom in the market.






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Nuts4LSU
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
18174 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

First, we shouldn't be comparing the treatment of African-Americans in this country to homosexuals. The disparity in historical discrimination isn't close.


How so? Are you suggesting that, historically, gays haven't been discriminated against as much as African-Americans? When was it ever a felony to be African-American? I mean officially, in the law books? I think to criminalize a person's very existence is about the most severe form of discrimination possible.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292849 posts
 Online 

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

It's whether they are harmed. Clearly they are.

so are the business owners who are forced to conduct business with people they don't wish to conduct business with

from what do we derive the ability to intrude on on person's rights via the state when another is not being intruded upon by the state? what is your justification for that scenario? because you feel bad?

quote:

When there is a problem, we fix it.

government fixing the problem of government, which will require more government...then when that fails...more government. see a pattern?

quote:

When there's an end to the problems, there'll be an end to fixing them.

there is no end when the alleged bad guy is a boogey man. even the USSC basically implied the south was still just a bunch of racists lying in wait to attack again. there will be no end if people still think like this

they're as bad as the racists that led to this shitty legislation, taking rights away from people and judging people based on variables that shouldn't be used to judge. but somehow people justify it

quote:

we have to have some limitations on the freedom of private enterprise to systematically exclude people from these necessary things for no good reason.

why? those people won't be excluded from every market

quote:

every grocery store in the country could refuse to serve people of a given classsification. So what then?

why would they eliminate that big of a chunk of the market?

seems ripe for another store to open up and cater to that population and benefit from smart business choices

that's how the free market works






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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
33671 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

The Constitution is there to protect people from the majority of their peers by setting limits on what the majority is allowed to do.


I wouldn't equate the court ruling that a fed/state/local law is unconstitutional with "the government fixing it". In addition, while quick government action/the legal system may help to right a wrong, the fight of the groups you mentioned is far more responsible for societal change vs. congressional action.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292849 posts
 Online 

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

The market didn't stop it from happening before.

you keep confusing public and private

jim crow = public. government segregation = wrong, directly or indirectly

private segregation is something else. were blacks starving in the super racist south in the 50s? no. i'm not saying that it was honky dory, but you're implying that in a society WITHOUT public segregation, private segregation would somehow be worse than it was in the past. how does that happen?






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Nuts4LSU
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2003
18174 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

Secondly, the market did not provide for African-Americans in the 50s and 60s because, for the most part, African-Americans were very poor and unable to make purchases such as hotel rooms. Therefore, there was no incentive for an individual to cater to that section of the population.


That was only part of it. Some businesses that might otherwise have been willing to serve African-Americans did not do so for fear of losing all their white customers who would refuse to eat at the same restaurants or stay at the same hotels that African-Americans did. Businesses probably made more money after it became illegal to discriminate because it allowed them to take advantage of the additional business while making the excuse to their existing customers that their hands were tied.

And if this is intended as a comparison to the situation gay people would be in, I'm not sure there are enough gay people with enough money to support an entire range of services should large numbers of businesses refuse to serve them.






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CerealKilla
SMU Fan
Das Boot
Member since Jan 2011
6098 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

How so? Are you suggesting that, historically, gays haven't been discriminated against as much as African-Americans? When was it ever a felony to be African-American? I mean officially, in the law books? I think to criminalize a person's very existence is about the most severe form of discrimination possible.

I would think slavery is the most severe form of discrimination possible. Very easy to hide homosexuality, but pretty difficult to do so if you're black.






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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
33671 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

I mean officially, in the law books? I think to criminalize a person's very existence is about the most severe form of discrimination possible.


are you referring to sodomy laws? most of them extending to heterosexuals as well...






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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
33671 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

honky dory


freudian slip?






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ForeLSU
LSU Fan
The Corner of Sanity and Madness
Member since Sep 2003
33671 posts

re: Should homosexuality be a protected class?


quote:

Businesses probably made more money after it became illegal to discriminate because it allowed them to take advantage of the additional business while making the excuse to their existing customers that their hands were tied.


what difference would it have made to their existing customers whether it was legal or not. If their clients were going to leave because blacks were there, they would have done so after the laws changed as well.






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