Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution-- - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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TK421
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
7760 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

was talking about an experience in confession not a case of child abuse


What the poster described WAS child abuse.






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38702 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

What the poster described WAS child abuse.



asking questions about sexual scenes would make it sexual abuse?






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38702 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

Should Catholic laymen condemn, support or ignore the Church allowing Mahoney to participate in the conclave to select the next Pope???



I don't know enough about the story to comment.






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TK421
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
7760 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

asking questions about sexual scenes would make it sexual abuse?


This is the first time I've been more than a little concerned for you, CTF.

You really can't understand why that should be regarded as serious child abuse?






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38702 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

Exactly and I fully understand that. But it not just what one considers the sacrament to be--it is also one's agreement to honor the authority of the Church. I can't for example, say I believe the sacrament to be the Body and Blood of Christ but I refuse to "join" the Church because of pedophile priest. You sell a potential convert on the authority a creep like Mahoney has over access to the sacrament.


a few things

ex opere operato, which means from the work done. Why I say this is that even when people like Mahoney when the administer the sacraments its not their merit its not their holiness that validates or invalidates the sacrament. IT is the work already done by Jesus Christ that Validates the Sacrament. So I don't care if an ordained priest murders 20 people abuses 100 children and is sleeping around with women. His sins never have any impact on the sacraments.

so if you are trying to argue that because Mahoney is a criminal he shouldn't have authority over sacraments. You misunderstand what the Church teaches.

Now the pope may revoke his faculties as a priest and bishop (cardinal is just a title added to bishop, bishop is thehighest ordained status any person in the Church a person can receive) meaning he couldn't except in extraordinary circumstances perform the sacraments.

on your you believe in it but don't want to come in because of sexual abuse. When someone recieves the body and blood of Jesus Christ he is saying in his action that he believes in it and believes in the Church who is administering this sacrament. This is why a PUBLIC act of belief is needed before reciving the sacrament. It is still the case in some places inthe Church that someone must confirm their faith before they can reiceve the Body and Blood of Christ. So you publicly accept all the teachings of the Catholic Church and then you can receive. For converts this is the way it works. At the vigil you are baptized (if necessary) you are confirmed and then you can receive the Eucharist.

quote:

Is there a Protestant church that denies communion to Christians or even discourages Christians to partake? Maybe I don't know. Not mine.


I was just using it as an example. But I don't think so the reason is they believe its only a symbol and doesn't change substance.

WE believe that Jesus is actually present the accidents of bread and wine. This is why we deny it to people, even Catholic Faithful.

quote:

Good Catholics should be questioning why this man made cannon law is so complex that wholesale covering up of sex abuse is still accommodated and that the guilty are still allowed to to things like help select the Pope.


cover up is much less wide spread and I don't think Mahoney will have an influence on the next pope, but I have no idea if he will or not.

plus it doesn't say in cannon law that we should cover up priests.

take a look at USCCB on this LINK

this is an issue that is left up to the individual conference of bishops usually. Only defrocking is left to the vatican. I'm not to educated on this stuff though so its slightly a guess.

but the days of letting sex abuse slide is behind us in most areas of the Church. Its just militant atheist and the secular media refuses to believe it and because that's what most people look at most people don't believe it either.

quote:

You can spin the reasoning and make excuses but today Law and Mahoney still enjoy the privileges Cardinals have and are still "leaders of the Church".

Why you support these men is beyond me.


never said I supported them.

But again defrocking, which kinda happened to Mahoney but the bishop can't remove his faculties to say mass because he is a bishop. Its alittle confusing because Mahoney is a retired bishop. Only roles he has in the diocese can he remove him from. Its not complex because we want this to slide its complex because of the nature of the Church.






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38702 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

This is the first time I've been more than a little concerned for you, CTF.

You really can't understand why that should be regarded as serious child abuse?



yes I can see why it would be considered that. I guess when I first read it I didn't seem like he was trying to accuse this priest of being to personal with his mother. I saw it as more of an attack on confession rather then sexual abuse.

I guess I misread it.






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TK421
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
7760 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

yes I can see why it would be considered that


Good. Now how many isolated incidents does it take for this sort of thing to be recognized as a pattern, in your opinion?






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catholictigerfan
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2009
38702 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

Good. Now how many isolated incidents does it take for this sort of thing to be recognized as a pattern, in your opinion?



ok what I was trying to say was that what this priest did I thought would be an isolated incident, not saying that sex abuse is an isolated incident but rather the way this priest did confession was isolated. It may have been better to say rare, priests are usually alot more kinda in confession and don't ask crazy questions like this, even if they wouldn't fall under sex abuse.

but a pattern would be like 2 or 3.






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Holden Caulfield
LSU Fan
Hanging with J.D.
Member since May 2008
6238 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:


The fact that he is "hiding out" in the Vatican to avoid arrest makes him look guilty...whether or not he is.

"Makes him look"

Guilt should never be limited to provable actions when presumed guilt is so easily demonstrated.







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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5457 posts

re: Pope to remain inside Vatican to avoid possible prosecution--


quote:

Its just militant atheist and the secular media refuses to believe it and because that's what most people look at most people don't believe it either.



When will the days of the Church harboring Cardinal Law--protecting him diplomatically from subpoenas end???

I am not a militant atheist or the secular media and I call BS on your impression this has ended. (Three years ago right here in Louisiana a priest who had been arrested 7 years ago for soliciting homosexual prostitutes in the streets of one town was moved via one other town to our town by the church. They put him in front of our elementary school children to conduct mass on a weekly basis for the school. He would still be there but the "secular media" uncovered his arrest and made it public and only then did the Church move him. I suppose the secular media is all we can depend on to protect us from this institution. That story gets even more ugly a year latter but I will not go there. Guy is still a priest in Texas.)



This post was edited on 2/20 at 4:05 pm


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