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Navytiger74 
LSU Fan
Manama, Bahrain
Member since Oct 2009
10665 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 6:20 am to Tigercat)
quote:
he wasn't even on the ballot on the southern states
So? Was he not elected in the exact manner prescribed by the Constitution?
quote:
He was a figurehead
Not sure what you mean here. From a certain perspective, Lincoln was the most aggressive and strident wielder of presidential power in American history (given the customs of his predecessors).
If you mean that his election was symbolic (at least in the South) of the ascendancy of anti-Slavery power in the North, I guess I can agree.
This post was edited on 2/18 at 6:26 am
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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Manama, Bahrain
Member since Oct 2009
10665 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 6:22 am to montman01)
quote:
1. Washington 2. Robert E Lee 3. all others after Lee are not constitutional presidents.... in my humble oppinion
Don't have enough of a read on you to know whether or not you're bullshiteting here.
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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
50724 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 7:07 am to Navytiger74)
quote:
Lincoln was the most aggressive and strident wielder of presidential power in American history
The nicest way that can be said.
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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Manama, Bahrain
Member since Oct 2009
10665 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 7:35 am to Roaad)
quote:
The nicest way that can be said.
Wasn't trying to be nice. Lincoln did what was necessary to bind this nation back together--at great personal cost. And he was instrumental in the permanent and universal abolition of the institution that had threatened the solidarity of the Union since the founding fathers punted on it almost a century before.
Great, great man.
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cssamerican 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2011
1771 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 8:30 am to Navytiger74)
If he would have accepted the compromises proposed at the time and adverted the civil war does anyone really think slavery would still exist today?
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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Manama, Bahrain
Member since Oct 2009
10665 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 8:37 am to cssamerican)
quote:
If he would have accepted the compromises proposed at the time and adverted the civil war does anyone really think slavery would still exist today?
I doubt many people do. Considering the fact that the South was willing to initiate a Civil War that cost more American war dead than any since, however, I can only assume that they weren't looking to abolish it in the near-term. Guessing at historical counter factuals is a pointless exercise, though.
This post was edited on 2/18 at 8:39 am
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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
9201 posts
 Online
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 8:38 am to Navytiger74)
quote:
Wasn't trying to be nice. Lincoln did what was necessary to bind this nation back together--at great personal cost. And he was instrumental in the permanent and universal abolition of the institution that had threatened the solidarity of the Union since the founding fathers punted on it almost a century before.
Great, great man.
This, the hate for Lincoln is so misplaced. It's been in fashion the past few years and has really been pumped by the Tea Party crowd, ironically.
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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Manama, Bahrain
Member since Oct 2009
10665 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 8:47 am to Interception)
quote:
This, the hate for Lincoln is so misplaced. It's been in fashion the past few years and has really been pumped by the Tea Party crowd, ironically.
My parents told me years ago that it was a relatively new development (mid-1970s on) spawned by neo-confederate apologists and their new-found sympathizers in certain wings of the conservative movement (states rights, rinse, repeat). I looked into that after reading "Team of Rivals" about 5 years ago and it seems that Lincoln was nationally held as an almost mythical figure among everyone but a few pissed-off southerners until the revisionist machine really started churning on the Civil War in the 1970s.
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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
50724 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 9:45 am to Navytiger74)
On my phone now, so I'll elaborate more later
But the "he did what he felt was necessary because holy frick {insert serious shit} was going down" argument is made by apologists of basically every tyrant.
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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Manama, Bahrain
Member since Oct 2009
10665 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 9:52 am to Roaad)
quote:
But the "he did what he felt was necessary because holy frick {insert serious shit} was going down" argument is made by apologists of basically every tyrant.
Am I supposed to be moved by that. Tyrants say a lot of shite. That doesn't invalidate the legitimate exercise of extraordinary executive powers during times of real national emergency--during a Civil War, for instance, when the very state that promulgated the law is in danger of dissolution.
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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
9201 posts
Online
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 10:01 am to Roaad)
quote:
On my phone now, so I'll elaborate more later
But the "he did what he felt was necessary because holy frick {insert serious shit} was going down" argument is made by apologists of basically every tyrant.
As if there was a peaceful resolution waiting in the midst? Was Lincoln suppose to just allow the southern states to leave? The proverbial "can" had been kicked as long as it could have been and war was basically inevitable.
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CptBengal 
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
30918 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 10:13 am to Interception)
1) TJ
2)G. Washington
3)J. Adams
4)A. Jackson
5)G. Cleveland
6)Teddy R.
7)J. Madison
8)Polk
9)Reagan
10)Clinton
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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Manama, Bahrain
Member since Oct 2009
10665 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 10:17 am to Interception)
quote:
As if there was a peaceful resolution waiting in the midst? Was Lincoln suppose to just allow the southern states to leave? The proverbial "can" had been kicked as long as it could have been and war was basically inevitable.
Didn't you know? Slavery's demise was imminent. The south was already thinking of ways to transition to a free society. That's why they were already drawing up bills in committee to introduce a time-table for gradual abolition and not, you know, starting a fricking war about the issue.
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Rickety Cricket 
Navy Fan
Premium Member
Member since Aug 2007
26607 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 10:18 am to CptBengal)
Good list
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CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
30918 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 10:21 am to Navytiger74)
quote:
and not, you know, starting a fricking war about the issue.
you honestly believe abolition of slavery was the primary factor for the civil war?
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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Manama, Bahrain
Member since Oct 2009
10665 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 10:24 am to CptBengal)
quote:
you honestly believe abolition of slavery was the primary factor for the civil war?
The preservation of slavery (for the South) was the primary factor in the Civil War.
ETA: This isn't a "Civil War" thread. If we're to debate the matter, we may as well start one. We haven't had one in a least a couple of weeks.
Of course, we could just dig up the old ones and review some of the hackneyed nonsense posted in those.
This post was edited on 2/18 at 10:54 am
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CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
30918 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 10:25 am to Navytiger74)
quote:
I "honestly believe" that the same way that I "honesty believe" that 2+2=4.
ok. I know not to waste any more time with you on this subject.
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CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
30918 posts
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quote:
Good list
all have their downsides and both 9 and 10 are really throw-ins due to the good they accomplished, but it is almost a push with the negatives they added.
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Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Manama, Bahrain
Member since Oct 2009
10665 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 10:28 am to CptBengal)
quote:
ok. I know not to waste any more time with you on this subject.
Good. Your arguments tend to be tedious and uninteresting. I'd hate to see what you invent for this one. 
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CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
30918 posts
| re: Top 10 Presidents (Posted on 2/18/13 at 10:32 am to Navytiger74)
quote:
I'd hate to see what you invent for this one
invent? that's laughable. Hold up your imperial president champ.
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