Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors - Page 5 - TigerDroppings.com

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LSUfanalways
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
484 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

quote:
that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

You mean aside from financially sponsoring disadvantaged kids attending private or parochial school? Aside from seeing those results? Aside from working with teachers to attain those results? Aside from conferring with family members who are/were career teachers? Aside from the common sense that competent choice tops mindless dictate? Trust me, I have a clue. Maybe even a little more than a clue.

So where do you gain your "expertise"?

quote:
you have provided NO evidence that private schools are "better" than public schools

The evidence is in the choices people make. Period.
A situation in which choice is denied speaks for itself.





In a capitalistic nation, choice is often constrained by means. Deal with it. Those with means can afford to send their child to whatever institution they wish. Again, why do you not support private schools that accept public funding being held to the same standards as public schools? Why are these schools not assigned a letter grade? Why aren't there penalties when students do not perform at the level that the state deems acceptable? Why are only public schools facing accountability? There's choice in this situation. You should be able to choose to send your child to whatever school your dollars can afford. How is it fixing the problem of education to give vouchers to unproven private schools to a FEW students in the state? Should a lottery system or your athletic prowess really be the deciding factor? I can't wait for some Muslim school to apply for vouchers and our "I wear my Catholicism on my sleeve governor" deny them and get sued. I absolutely can not wait.






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LSUfanalways
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
484 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

The quality of parenting. How does vouchers fix poor parenting that does not value education?



We are not trying to fix that. We are saying parents who want a choice of a school that caters to poor quality parents and one that doesn't should be given that choice.

THe schools should have the freedom to operate properly too. With vouchers, over time, schools will arise to fill every need better than we do today.





The point is that QUALITY private schools will NEVER accept vouchers, so you're just shifting the money around. Will Newman take a voucher? Not likely. Then, when many of these disruptive children who do not have real parents in the home get EXPELLED, they flock right back to these "failing public schools." Except the money does NOT follow them, and public schools are FORCED TO ACCEPT THESE children, many of whom are thugs and criminals.






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LSUfanalways
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
484 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

The evidence is in the choices people make. Period.
A situation in which choice is denied speaks for itself.



Right. My husband attended Newman, and was one of three blacks in his class. Accordingly, I want the choice to send my child to Isidore Newman. The state should pay for this because I should have the same "choice" that rich (often white) kids have in New Orleans. Please.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
51327 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

But how does this help the students that are left behind?
Several ways.
First in initial teacher student ratios and presumably in resulting performance. Ultimately in competition and thesis reconstruction. Obama was wrong in recent intimations that college is or should be available for everyone. Public schools emphasizing a vocational curriculum and advise would do their kids a great service. Welders, Plumbers, etc. do well financially. Public schools would do well to aid matches of capability with job availability.

Ultimately school choice (of which vouchers are a component) would help, not hurt public school quality. Essentially it's pay for performance.
quote:

10-20% of the students in failing public schools are the problem. They have no desire to obtain an education and will actively prevent others from learning. 90% of a school's time and resources are spent on these students
I'd propose treating HS truancy and/or behavior issues with incarceration in a minimum security bootcamp-style facility.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5457 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

The state should pay for this because I should have the same "choice" that rich (often white) kids have in New Orleans. Please.


No the state should give you a voucher. It may or may not mean you can pay for Newman. What is surely true is that bureaucrats should not dictate to you where you get your publicly funded education simply because of your address.



This post was edited on 2/16 at 2:37 pm


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mikelowery1911
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2009
707 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:


The point is that QUALITY private schools will NEVER accept vouchers, so you're just shifting the money around. Will Newman take a voucher? Not likely. Then, when many of these disruptive children who do not have real parents in the home get EXPELLED, they flock right back to these "failing public schools." Except the money does NOT follow them, and public schools are FORCED TO ACCEPT THESE children, many of whom are thugs and criminals.


Exactly






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5457 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

quote:

The point is that QUALITY private schools will NEVER accept vouchers, so you're just shifting the money around. Will Newman take a voucher? Not likely. Then, when many of these disruptive children who do not have real parents in the home get EXPELLED, they flock right back to these "failing public schools." Except the money does NOT follow them, and public schools are FORCED TO ACCEPT THESE children, many of whom are thugs and criminals.


Exactly



Not if all kids get vouchers. Let the public schools go private.

But let's just say everybody got vouchers and the only thing left in government schools were thugs. That would be great wouldn't it?? Great because the people that would like to send their kids somewhere now besides the public schools with the thugs will get too?

Are you people saying you want everybody to suffer because there are thugs in schools??

Sounds to me like instead of opposing vouchers you should be screaming for the freedom to kick them out and to quit passing them from grade to grade like you do now.

The entire problem is this mentality that we must teach to accommodate the worst students. How the public school supporter let that thing dominate their schools is beyond me.






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mikelowery1911
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2009
707 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

Several ways.
First in initial teacher student ratios and presumably in resulting performance. Ultimately in competition and thesis reconstruction. Obama was wrong in recent intimations that college is or should be available for everyone. Public schools emphasizing a vocational curriculum and advise would do their kids a great service. Welders, Plumbers, etc. do well financially. Public schools would do well to aid matches of capability with job availability.

Ultimately school choice (of which vouchers are a component) would help, not hurt public school quality. Essentially it's pay for performance.


Vocational schools are a great idea. We need those now!!! Vouchers have not worked. Look at the state of public education in Louisiana now. We are ranked normally 49th or 50th and this is after 40 years of having a choice based education system because our extensive parochial school system. Up to 33% of families in Louisiana have chosen to leave the public school system over the past 40 years and we are all worse off for it.

I would be more inclined to agree with you that school choice is the answer if private schools were graded the way public schools are. We assume private schools are better because poor kids from disadvantaged backgrounds cannot attend. Private school parents have been sold a bag of goods. Their children attend school in a quieter and safer environment but are they learning more complex concepts than children in public schools? The answer 95% of the time is no.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
51327 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

Again, why do you not support private schools that accept public funding being held to the same standards as public schools?
I don't give a rat's arse one way or another. Couldn't care less. If their product is valuable it will be purchased. Period!
No one has to attend Private Schools.
If the product they offer is poor, they'll go out of business. P4P.
quote:

I can't wait for some Muslim school to apply for vouchers and our "I wear my Catholicism on my sleeve governor" deny them and get sued. I absolutely can not wait.
I would hope and expect Muslim Schools would be able to participate in a voucher program. Do you not think a Muslim hijab-wearing girl might enjoy a more suitable educational environment in a Muslim School than in a public school? How about after a national level terrorist attack?

==========

Your anti-educational-choice attitude is interesting.
I'd be curious as to it's origin. Jealousy? Envy? Bigotry? Allegiances to PSS? You strangely assert the public school system is competitive with private/parochial schools. Yet you say, "In a capitalistic nation, choice is often constrained by means. Deal with it." It's a laughable contrast, especially the latter.
I have dealt with it.

You OTOH seem to have a problem . . . deal with it.







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cssamerican
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2011
2249 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


The problem in education is simple.

In athletics if you don't have the ability to be great we as a society have no problem telling you. You are not big enough, you are not fast enough, your hand eye coordination isn't good enough. We are also willing to admit no matter how much someone practices they probably will not be as good as Micheal Jordon was at basketball.

In academics if you don't have the ability to be great we as a society refuse to tell you that, in fact, we tell you that you can be just as successful as everyone else academically if you just apply yourself. This is BS, and until we are ready to take this on education will suffer.






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LSUfanalways
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
484 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


Now you're just making up statements. I never said public schools were as good as private. I said that you do not advocate holding private schools to the same accountability as public schools. You seem reasonably intelligent, if misguided. So I'm not sure why it's so difficult for you to understand the following: if you are using a metric to determine that public schools are performing poorly, the SAME metric should be used to ascertain that private schools are performing well. For some reason our governor, head of education, and you seem to think that private schools should get TAX dollars but should not be held to the same standard. The question is why? On John whites payroll? Run a charter organization? Receiving kickbacks? ,





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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5457 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

said that you do not advocate holding private schools to the same accountability as public schools


If everybody got vouchers all schools would be held to the ultimate accountability--the choices of their customers.

Why would anyone oppose vouchers for everybody?? Why?






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
51327 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

Their children attend school in a quieter and safer environment but are they learning more complex concepts than children in public schools? The answer 95% of the time is no.
Anecdotal but public vs private/parochial course study level, collegiate prep, SAT prep, AP Exams performance, SAT subject test scores, subsequent collegiate adjustment and performance is not remotely comparable in this area . . . with the possible exception of our magnets. Magnets have their own issues.

But maybe that's just here. Perhaps kids at Covington HS get every bit as good an education as kids attending St. Paul's. Think so?






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LSUfanalways
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
484 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


I oppose the voucher system here for two reasons. First a fraction of children will get them and a fraction of schools will accept them thus not solving the problem at all. Secondly why should public schools be forced to give standardized tests and be punished for dismal results and private schools not be held to the sand standard? There should be parity. Private schools should take the SAMR tests and suffer the same consequences for poor performance. Of get rid if standardized tests for acetylene And let the parent decide what's best for his or her child. The system should be fair; in its current form it is NOT. Public schools get penalties for poor perform car; private do not. Public schools get letter grades; private do not.





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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22423 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

In athletics if you don't have the ability to be great we as a society have no problem telling you. You are not big enough, you are not fast enough, your hand eye coordination isn't good enough. We are also willing to admit no matter how much someone practices they probably will not be as good as Micheal Jordon was at basketball.

In academics if you don't have the ability to be great we as a society refuse to tell you that, in fact, we tell you that you can be just as successful as everyone else academically if you just apply yourself. This is BS, and until we are ready to take this on education will suffer.
This is an excellent point.

We are so desperate to ensure that everyone is "successful" at school that there is all sorts of downward pressure on the material.

What's wrong with admitting that some simply aren't academically talented? That isn't insulting. It's just recognition of truth. Nor does it mean they are talentless. Just notes one they do not possess.

In a lot of ways this is how Political Correctness is hurting us as a society. We cloak obvious truths behind false ideas of equality that does not exist. There is nothing liberating about this process. In fact, it enslaves us to failure.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5457 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

I oppose the voucher system here for two reasons. First a fraction of children will get them and a fraction of schools will accept them thus not solving the problem at all. Secondly why should public schools be forced to give standardized tests and be punished for dismal results and private schools not be held to the sand standard? There should be parity. Private schools should take the SAMR tests and suffer the same consequences for poor performance. Of get rid if standardized tests for acetylene And let the parent decide what's best for his or her child. The system should be fair; in its current form it is NOT. Public schools get penalties for poor perform car; private do not. Public schools get letter grades; private do not.


All funding should be voucher and every problem you mention here will no longer exist.

Private schools that do not perform close today yet public schools that do not perform never close. Look at St. Helena Central. Solve that with the current system and then you have a legitimate defense of our top down, dictatorial education system.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
51327 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

I never said public schools were as good as private.

So you're saying Private Schools are better?






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LSUfanalways
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
484 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


Of course SAT scores may be higher at some private schools; they CHOOSE who they accept. Surely you can understand that. While thugs bring guns to schools in Baton Rouge those kids would never be in a private school to begin with. Further, average SAT scores etc. at Northshore High is just as good as the education at your typical private school, if not better.





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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
51327 posts

re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


quote:

Further, average SAT scores etc. at Northshore High is just as good as the education at your typical private school, if not better.
OK, even understanding nearly 100% of private school population participates in CEA testing as opposed to public counterparts . . . . I'll still call that bet.

Link?






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Wolfhound45
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re: Poll: Jindal Among Nation's Most Unpopular Governors


As this has devolved into a discussion regarding public and private education, I have to ask, why is the government even involved in education? I understand why society has a vested interest in an educated public, but why does that mean the government (federal, state, local) have to be directly involved in the administration of education? I can understand establishing basic standards. I can understand enforcing said standards. Cannot understand why they have to exert direct control over the actual education process. Could there be something more to this? Hmmmmm.





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