78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens - Page 9 - TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
Jbird
Iowa Fan
In Odramaville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
15982 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

I'm not arguing about whether or not this violates anyone's civil liberties or right to due process.


Because they have already been stripped away.







Back to top
CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
37828 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

I'm not arguing about whether or not this violates anyone's civil liberties or right to due process.


good, because you havent been able to answer anyone's question to that point.

quote:

hope I've been clear in establishing that I, like the president, his advisors, most of congress,


lol wut?????

quote:

and (by precedent) the courts, don't give a flying frick about the civil liberties of a belligerent acting as a part of a hostile force.


actually there are several current suits about the NDAA that the plaintiffs have been winning against your lord Obama. It seems like the courts may not be ready to relinquish their power to the your chosen master.

Moreover, if Obama wants dictatorial powers...he cant have them, regardless what his cronies say.






Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292842 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

I, like the president, his advisors, most of congress, and (by precedent) the courts, don't give a flying frick about the civil liberties of a belligerent acting as a part of a foreign hostile force.

what about the innocent man accused of a crime he didn't commit?






Back to top
Zed
Alabama Fan
Member since Feb 2010
7913 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


If we don't allow under any circumstance the execution of an American terrorist without due process, American born terrorists operating in uncooperative countries are effectively off limits without Bin Laden style raids. This is acceptable?





Back to top
UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
1261 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

The response that he quoted was addressing the nexus of clarity and specificity.

It's a self-inflicted wound that eviscerates your position. Yes, prior non-specific evidence of a potential crime is of interest but cannot be prosecuted until a crime has actually taken place.

quote:

“there is no evidence suggesting that he has renounced or abandoned such activities.”


How silly you look defending such unadulterated bull shite.



This post was edited on 2/8 at 12:42 pm


Back to top
Darth_Vader
Auburn Fan
Where I lay My Head Is Home
Member since Dec 2011
16975 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

I'm not arguing about whether or not this violates anyone's civil liberties or right to due process.


quote:

Because they have already been stripped away.


Exactly. WE now live in a country where the government can declare you a terrorist and kill you with a freaking hellfire missile anytime it pleases. Due process and civil liberties are a thing of the past. We now either toe the gov line or risk being blown to kingdom come.







Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292842 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

American born terrorists operating in uncooperative countries are effectively off limits without Bin Laden style raids. This is acceptable?

this is the problem with trying to maintain a military actions against individuals in other countries






Back to top
RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
10598 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

Exactly. WE now live in a country where the government can declare you a terrorist and kill you with a freaking hellfire missile anytime it pleases. Due process and civil liberties are a thing of the past. We now either toe the gov line or risk being blown to kingdom come.



In principle, DV, we indeed do. But if such were ever happen...there'd be hell to pay. Look what happened with Waco/Ruby Ridge...the 'weak links' go rogue, and it all goes to hell.

It's the ole 'trade liberty for security' thing. Problematic for sure.







Back to top
Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2009
13971 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

what about the innocent man accused of a crime he didn't commit?


How likely does it seem that a random American would find himself mistaken for a high-ranking member of al-Qaida. Do you think the government just goes off a single anonymous tip or something?







Back to top
Zed
Alabama Fan
Member since Feb 2010
7913 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

this is the problem with trying to maintain a military actions against individuals in other countries
The alternative is allowing Al Qaeda to grow undeterred in foreign countries. How do we realistically combat them in uncooperative countries without violating their sovereignty?






Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292842 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

How likely does it seem that a random American would find himself mistaken for a high-ranking member of al-Qaida.

first of all, that's irrelevant

secondly, that is the standard RIGHT NOW. that standard will become wider and wider over time (i hope you don't deny that)

quote:

Do you think the government just goes off a single anonymous tip or something?

no, but the government is composed of people who are human and are subject to group think

our civil liberties aren't there to protect the guilty. they're there to protect the innocent

your entire premise is that innocent people basically won't be put in danger, and that's ridiculous. your argument can only work if our government was perfect and operated without any error and with omniscient knowledge






Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292842 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

How do we realistically combat them in uncooperative countries without violating their sovereignty?

we can't

we can do alot of shite to those countries that will cripple them without an expensive war

quote:

The alternative is allowing Al Qaeda to grow undeterred in foreign countries

you realize that this action is not winnable, right? do you support a perpetual state of war?






Back to top
Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2009
13971 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

It's a self-inflicted wound that eviscerates your position. Yes, prior non-specific evidence of a potential crime is of interest but cannot be prosecuted until a crime has actually taken place.


1. You're wrong. Conspiracy to commit a crime can be a crime.

2. Our civil rules of evidence are among the fairest and best in the world. They help to safeguard our freedom. But that's not the set of rules that the IC and the military are playing by when "prosecuting" belligerents. We have ways of connecting the dots that would be inadmissible and ways that wouldn't necessarily hold up in court if admitted. Fighting a transnational war in no way resembles an episode of law and order.






Back to top
RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
89786 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens



quote:


Because they have already been stripped away.


Perceived security over liberty...


People get what they deserve, I suppose.






Back to top
RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
89786 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

American born terrorists operating in uncooperative countries are effectively off limits without Bin Laden style raids. This is acceptable?


I guess you will just take their word that they are a terrorist.

Looks like a lot of innocents have been brought down in this war on terror as well.






Back to top
Patrick_Bateman
USA Fan
Member since Jan 2012
8061 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


Obama can do no wrong, as far as Ed Shultz's viewers are concerned.





Back to top
Zed
Alabama Fan
Member since Feb 2010
7913 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

you realize that this action is not winnable, right? do you support a perpetual state of war?
We can weaken Al Qaeda. We can keep them from building up to the point that they are able to launch another large scale attack on US soil. If we want to avoid that, what choice do we have? We can do this without invasions and occupation.






Back to top
Navytiger74
LSU Fan
Washington, DC
Member since Oct 2009
13971 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

your entire premise is that innocent people basically won't be put in danger, and that's ridiculous. your argument can only work if our government was perfect and operated without any error and with omniscient knowledge


My premise is an innocent American is very, very, very unlikely be targeted. Innocent people die in every war just like they've died in prisons and execution chambers in this country. But this is not "some random senior official picking names out of a hat for his amusement". We have a process that has enabled us to ID and eliminate 3/4s of AQ's operational leadership and prevented another major operation on our soil.






Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
292842 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

We can weaken Al Qaeda. We can keep them from building up to the point that they are able to launch another large scale attack on US soil.

at what cost?

it's not worth it

if they bankrupt the US, they win






Back to top
UncleFestersLegs
Columbia MO
Member since Nov 2010
1261 posts

re: 78% of Ed Shulz's viewers support targeted assassinations of American citizens


quote:

How likely does it seem that a random American would find himself mistaken for a high-ranking member of al-Qaida

And people don't need the 4th amendment if they have nothing to hide, eh?

These things are so fundamental to our nation that giving them up is infinitely worse than letting the terrorist get away.

"Another such victory and I am undone."






Back to top


Back to top




//