House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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NC_Tigah
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re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

It's a cultural thing. You wouldn't understand.






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joeytiger
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Denham Springs
Member since Jul 2012
3276 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


Those evil Republicans, how dare they force our Lord and Savior to a time line to pass a budget. Don't you know he has more important things to worry about. Just leave Obama alone, he is changing the world!!!!





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joeytiger
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Denham Springs
Member since Jul 2012
3276 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama








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Meauxjeaux
Memphis Fan
I have 89,275 posts with my alters
Member since Jun 2005
16312 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

Yeah, but in fairness, what have republicans cut in the last 30 years? Answer: nothing.


Go look at any chart over the last 30 years.

Explosive spending = Dems in charge of the House.
In-check spending = Reps in charge of the House.

The ONLY time this has not been the case is the current President and Congress.






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NC_Tigah
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Member since Sep 2003
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re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


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In-check spending = Reps in charge of the House.
Somewhere Denny Hastert (aka POS) is






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moneyg
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2006
18777 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

Yeah, but in fairness, what have republicans cut in the last 30 years? Answer: nothing. Don't act like if it weren't for the democrats, the deficit problem would be resolved and we'd be paying down the debt. It's disingenuous as hell.



While there is clearly some truth in this, liberals use this as support to keep spending while conservatives use it as an indication of what is wrong.

quote:

Boehner and Obama are going to have to sit down, work something out, and then have a "come to Jesus" with their respective parties. Because that's what it's going to take to balance the budget.



Obama would rather run a deficit than cut spending to non-deficit levels.






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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
9097 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

Were that the case, it's such an asinine assertion that I'd feel badly for you even if you were Pelosi's personal spin aide.

I'm not saying she is a particularly bright person, nor a good speaker, but what exactly do you think she meant with that statement? Do you honestly think she slipped up and that the details of obamacare were a secret, even though the entire text was available online? Isn't it much more plausible that she chose extremely poor words to express the fact that nobody knows the final contents of any legislation until after it has passed? The House knew what they had passed, but the Senate had not yet passed anything to compare it or make changes to it. Hence, it has to be passed to see what's in the final version.

But yeah, you're probably right. She very publicly spilled the beans on a plot to cover up the contents of a huge piece of legislation in order to pass it, and hoped nobody would remember that we actually could see the contents of such things before they pass.






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NC_Tigah
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re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

Isn't it much more plausible that she chose extremely poor words to express the fact that nobody knows the final contents of any legislation until after it has passed? The House knew what they had passed, but the Senate had not yet passed anything to compare it or make changes to it. Hence, it has to be passed to see what's in the final version.
More plausible than your ErichVonDäniken strawman idiocy? Perhaps.

OTOH, as she and the President had repeatedly botched explanations about what Obamacare was -- it's costs, what it was designed to do, etc., one must assume one of two things. Either she was lying, or she hadn't a clue as to WTF was contained in the 2700 page monstrosity her House cobbled together. Take your pick. But ANYone who understands the budget process understands that bill in it's final form would need to come back before Pelosi and her House prior to passage. So the statement that "we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it," somehow focused on the Senate is not believable.
quote:

not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention-it's about diet, not diabetes. It's going to be very, very exciting.

But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.
There never was a fricking thing in her bill or any other "about diet, not diabetes." There never was a fricking thing in her bill establishing "preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket." She was/is a totally California-clueless nitwit. She did not give a rat's arse about details in the Bill, nor was she interested in its details. THAT WAS THE POINT OF HER COMMENT. Like all leftists, it's about intent, not result.

Just pass the damn thing . . . . we mean well. "We've got to pass it to see what's in it." Then if votes allow, we'll fix it. But fixing it is less important than passing it, because passing it goes to intent.

Her own spokesman ""clarified"" 2 days later as follows:
"She meant there was so much talk about process (in Congress) that people have lost sight of what's actually in the bill. Once it's passed, we can remind them of all the good things that are in it."

It took Pelosi 4-5 more months to come up with the explanation you're forwarding here.






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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
9097 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

NC_Tigah

I appreciate you taking the time to explain your beliefs, but there are a few reasons I am skeptical.

1. Why would anyone, especially someone of such high profile, lie about something so huge in order to pass it, knowing full well the consequences? She simply had to believe that obamacare would be successful. Whether she is/was correct is a whole other debate.

2. If she didn't really know what was in it, why would anyone risk the political suicide (same as #1) of pushing something through without knowing what it is?

3. The quote made the rounds as an example of careless lawmaking, as if the liberals are sneaking things through and bypassing the process. Wasn't obamacare (and all legislation for that matter) posted online in its entirety before passage? Have any discrepancies between what was posted and what was passed been found? Is there anything in it that we didn't find out about until after it became law? Now, whether the effects align with the intent has yet to be seen, but again that is an entirely different debate.



I agree that it was a stupid thing to say, but I don't see how it exposes some huge web of deceit. It is a factual statement that applies to any law, by design of the system.






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MFn GIMP
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Owensboro, Kentucky
Member since Feb 2011
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re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

This is the reason they tacked on spending caps and a 2/3 voting requirement last time they tried to get a BBA passed

I haven't had a chance to read this one yet so I wasn't sure if those were included in this proposed version as well. Thanks.






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RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
10556 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


Yall know Romney was right with his "47%" remark.

Jesus Christ couldn't balance this budget, with the manufacturing base being spread around the world and the economy running on FIAT Cash, and payback to a longer-lived boomer generation, and Lats crashing the border, disability SS going to every unemployable yahoo with ADHD, etc, etc. There aint a politician running for National Office that can win another election on CUTTING government spending. It would take the whole economy and the Stock Market down...and with it, all the retirement packages. Private and public.

And that is EXACTLY what Obama wants. Sure fire way to get his Central Planned Economy, and then we'll get back to a "sustainable economy". Mmm huh...Social justice...gotta break eggs to make and omelot. But at least he's pullin it off without mass political genocide, like his former ideological brethren. Yet.

Forward.






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NC_Tigah
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re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

If she didn't really know what was in it, why would anyone risk the political suicide (same as #1) of pushing something through without knowing what it is?
You act as though she authored it. She did not. Conyers, and Stark, and Waters, and Fwank, and others did. She oversaw sections of it. Not being intellectually curious or held responsible by the press, she was unfamiliar with the vast majority of ACA content.

You ask why someone would """risk political suicide""" "by pushing something through without knowing what it is?" Clearly she hadn't a clue. I've already demonstrated that. Was it political suicide?

She was/is an idiot.
She did not know WTF was in the Bill. (probably still doesn't)
Did that end her career?
Was it political suicide?

No?
Why not?

Becaue her name is Pelosi (D).
Had her last name been Palin (R) rather than Pelosi (D), her political career would have been over.
It wasn't, so it isn't.
quote:

Is there anything in it that we didn't find out about until after it became law? Now, whether the effects align with the intent has yet to be seen, but again that is an entirely different debate.
You mean like . . . . . . Seven million will lose insurance under Obama health law?






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Taxing Authority
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
22097 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

The Republican-led House passed legislation Wednesday that would force President Obama to estimate when the federal budget will balance again
Clear case of racism!






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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
9097 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

Clearly she hadn't a clue. I've already demonstrated that

I guess I missed the part where you demonstrated that. Not being a dick, I just really don't follow you here.

I have agreed that she isn't that bright, but I don't know if I will ever see your point of view on this quote. It seems to me that the reason this quote was taken out of context and strewn about was to insinuate that there were things in obamacare that she didn't want people to know about until after it passed. I don't see how any reasonable person could be convinced that this is true, especially since the Republicans had already torn it apart and voiced their opinions on it.






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HonoraryCoonass
LSU Fan
Member since Jan 2005
5334 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

1. Why would anyone, especially someone of such high profile, lie about something so huge in order to pass it, knowing full well the consequences? She simply "*had*" to believe that obamacare would be successful. Whether she is/was correct is a whole other debate. 

2. If she didn't really know what was in it, why would anyone risk the political suicide (same as #1) of pushing something through without knowing what it is? 


First of all, the media would never call her on it, and even if they did, San Francisco would never vote her out. There is no risk or consequences for somebody like her!






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GoCrazyAuburn
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Member since Feb 2010
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re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


Look at the link he posted two up from yours. That proves his point.





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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
9097 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

Look at the link he posted two up from yours. That proves his point.

That is clearly describing the projected effects of the law, not the law itself, which I said is a different debate.






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davesdawgs
Georgia Fan
Georgia
Member since Oct 2008
16482 posts
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re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


Or how about a date for a budget period that has a chance in hell of passing in Congress.






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
50468 posts
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re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

Look at the link he posted two up from yours. That proves his point.
Yep. I guess apologists will apologize. Just the way it is.
quote:

quote:

quote:

Nancy Pelosi quote:

not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention-it's about diet, not diabetes.

NC Tigah wrote:

There never was a fricking thing in her bill or any other "about diet, not diabetes." There never was a fricking thing in her bill establishing "preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket." She was/is a totally California-clueless nitwit.


quote:

Clearly she hadn't a clue. I've already demonstrated that

Korkstand replied:

I guess I missed the part where you demonstrated that.
Res ipsa loquitur.

In virtually every single appearance by Pelosi on Obamacare, she significantly mischaracterized elements of the bill, just as she did above. Her mischaracterizations extended beyond lies into the realm of an air-head's fantasy. The woman was/is clueless.

When she passed Obamacare and did find out was actually in it, she found it negatively impacted her own district constituents and campaign supporters (along with the rest of the country).

She realized it was basically the POS her opponents had claimed.
More importantly, her constituents realized it too.

So, she had to "fix" it.

What was her fix?

Her fix was to make her district supporters exempt from the thing.
She secured waivers for her people! . . .
. . . . protecting them from Obamacare.

Lot's of waivers.
A ton of waivers.
At one point, 20% of waivers nationwide were granted to Pelosi’s district!

Great stuff.







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Korkstand
LSU Fan
Plaquemine, LA
Member since Nov 2003
9097 posts

re: House votes to require balanced budget date from Obama


quote:

Res ipsa loquitur.

In virtually every single appearance by Pelosi on Obamacare, she significantly mischaracterized elements of the bill, just as she did above. Her mischaracterizations extended beyond lies into the realm of an air-head's fantasy. The woman was/is clueless.

When she passed Obamacare and did find out was actually in it, she found it negatively impacted her own district constituents and campaign supporters (along with the rest of the country).

So which is it? Did she intentionally mischaracterize it (ie. lie), or did she not know? It's hard to lie about something when you don't know the truth about it.

Look, it's clearly evident that nobody can possibly know the far-reaching consequences of 2700 pages worth of shit, and I hate the fact that such a huge and varied piece of legislature can be voted on and passed at once instead of piecemeal. That said, I still try to look at things with a level head, and I firmly believe that the woman truly believed that the good outweighed the bad in the long term.

She's not the brightest bulb on the tree, but I don't think she's an evil, conniving bitch as an out of context quote would lead you to believe.

The bottom line (for me) is that I'm tired of the hard left and hard right continually nitpicking everything to make their followers hate the other side, and doing everything possible to keep the power struggle going.

I'm tired of hearing the word "socialism", too. Insurance is an inherently socialist concept, does nobody see this? It is a pooling of risk to decrease the risk of an individual, and setting up a socialist concept so that someone can profit does not make it capitalist... it makes it broken. Health care costs as a % of GDP have been rising at an unsustainable pace for decades, and something had to be done. Is obamacare the end-all, be-all solution? Of course not, and nobody thinks it is, but it's something.

I know it's hard to believe, but not everybody is trying to pull a fast one on you. If this makes me an apologist, so be it.






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