"The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs - Page 2 - TigerDroppings.com

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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16339 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


classic. You make a claim, post no evidence, and insist those questioning you provide evidence to prove you wrong. I'm not doing your homework. You made a claim...back it up. Its kind of how it works. It is telling you have note provided any evidence...and when pushed you point to statewide revenue. you're a bright one!





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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5508 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

Have you ever provided any kind of a link in your posts?


You spout off about tax credits and how the state is throwing money away, yet you never provide any kind of link.

At least this time you gave a newspaper, but then we have to take your word that they really printed it and you took it all in the right context.

So, again, link?


I explained that in the post above but I have no reason to lie.

Do you doubt we spend over $200 million a year on this? Read this
LINK

Do see any increase in tax revenues over the last decade that we have gave away this money? You can read here and report back
LINK

Do you think film tax credits have proven themselves anywhere?

LINK
LINK

LINK

LINK

LINK






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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16339 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


There it is! Beautiful. You can't help yourself. An economics guru. Tell us how the film industry is the center piece to the state's overall revenues. Brilliant!





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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5508 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

There it is! Beautiful. You can't help yourself. An economics guru. Tell us how the film industry is the center piece to the state's overall revenues. Brilliant!


You are all talk and no fact BBONDS25. Tell us just where the extra taxes are coming from to make up the direct taxpayer loss on "The Talk".

If you can't prove the welfare to the show "The Talk" works then why should we think any of it works?

Blow off the challenge and attack me if you wish to look like a pansy poster or better for you just ignore it.

I have explained the revenue flow of The Talk in as simple as terms as possible. Even you should understand.






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magildachunks
Member since Oct 2006
11171 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


Your first link does not work.


AS for the others, explaining how the tax subsidies do not work, they all fail to mention LA's program. THey focus on all the states who jumped on the tax credit band wagon after Louisiana did it and have failed to attract projects to their states.

I mean, I feel sorry for Massachusetts and Pennsylvania, but what does that have to do with Louisiana?

And the one link you provided for Louisiana out of all those in the lower tier of links, is a one line quote from 2004






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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16339 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


How many times do I have to say it. YOU make a claim...YOU back it up. YOU can't, so you demand we seek evidence to the contrary. The burden is on YOU...the one making the claim. So instead of saying everyone else is all talk, maybe YOU should bring some subtance to YOUR threads. I swear I feel like I'm trying to teach an 8th grader basic debate here. You are either obtuse/ignorant/ or dense. You pick which one.





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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5508 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

Your first link does not work.


LINK

try this one






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5508 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

How many times do I have to say it. YOU make a claim...YOU back it up. YOU can't, so you demand we seek evidence to the contrary. The burden is on YOU...the one making the claim. So instead of saying everyone else is all talk, maybe YOU should bring some subtance to YOUR threads. I swear I feel like I'm trying to teach an 8th grader basic debate here. You are either obtuse/ignorant/ or dense. You pick which one.


What do you want beyond the specific abuse in "The Talk" example?

What do you want beyond the actual state revenue collections over 5 of the 10 year the program has been in existence? After a billion dollars in film welfare there is no apparent positive change in any Louisiana tax collection.

What you want besides link after friggin link on the failures of the film tax credits?

There are hard heads I suppose that can read all those links and look at the "The Talk" welfare and understand that even ESPN will most probably get a big welfare check from us on the super bowl coverage this week and think it is good to give away tax money to these people but I can't imagine there are many other than you.

Insult me if you wish but I have put forth enough proof for any objective person to say I have proven my point.






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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16339 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


Its fairly simple. Post the revenue for the state with the film industry, and the revenue of the state without the film industry. Just the bottom line. Thanks in advance.

By the way. You may want to stop posting state revenue for the last 10 years as your evidence that the film industry is hurting louisiana. It really takes away from any valid points you may have. Just makes you look woefully ignorant of basic economics.



This post was edited on 2/3 at 11:54 am


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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5508 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

Its fairly simple. Post the revenue for the state with the film industry, and the revenue of the state without the film industry. Just the bottom line. Thanks in advance.

By the way. You may want to stop posting state revenue for the last 10 years as your evidence that the film industry is hurting louisiana. It really takes away from any valid points you may have. Just makes you look woefully ignorant of basic economics.



That would be something good for you to post to prove your point. I have proven the cost to the state, the stagnant revenues of the state and have given a very good example of a single project that is an obvious loser for the state.

No reason to argue anymore with me. You should attack the authors of all those articles I posted and you should at least try to prove The Talk welfare is good for Louisiana.

May case is made and very adequately so. If you disagree so what.



This post was edited on 2/3 at 11:58 am


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16339 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

That would be something good for you to post to prove your point. I have proven the cost to the state, the stagnant revenues of the state and have given a very good example of a single project that is an obvious loser for the state.




LINK /

Forbes magazine:

quote:

The LBP report states that the department of economic development has issued $231 million in tax credits over the course of the year, and claims that the state is only receiving a fraction of that investment in return in tax revenue. Citing data that was released in BaxStarr’s 2011 Economic Impact Analysis, the LBP report notes that every $1 of new tax revenues brought in has cost the state $7.30. What the analysis fails to report are the numbers that reflect the annual total economic impact on Louisiana’s economy – data that can also be found on BaxStarr’s Economic Impact Analysis. In 2010, the total economic output surpassed $1.1 billion, which is about $5.71 brought into the state for every $1 tax credit issued by the state. Also not taken into account is the amount of new tax payers the industry has created through businesses, jobs, property owners, and industries that would not even exist in Louisiana had it not been for the implementation of the tax credit program.


We done now?



This post was edited on 2/3 at 12:00 pm


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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5508 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

The LBP report states that the department of economic development has issued $231 million in tax credits over the course of the year, and claims that the state is only receiving a fraction of that investment in return in tax revenue. Citing data that was released in BaxStarr’s 2011 Economic Impact Analysis, the LBP report notes that every $1 of new tax revenues brought in has cost the state $7.30. What the analysis fails to report are the numbers that reflect the annual total economic impact on Louisiana’s economy – data that can also be found on BaxStarr’s Economic Impact Analysis. In 2010, the total economic output surpassed $1.1 billion, which is about $5.71 brought into the state for every $1 tax credit issued by the state. Also not taken into account is the amount of new tax payers the industry has created through businesses, jobs, property owners, and industries that would not even exist in Louisiana had it not been for the implementation of the tax credit program.


Read that again. Even if true what would be the state tax collection on that $5.71?? Give me your estimate. Assume the state income tax is 6% and the sales tax 4%.

You understand that blogger on Forbes is citing a film industry report and is spinning tax collections and economic activity in the same context? Two very different things. The sales at a Wal Mart store are economic activity not unlike the $5.71.



This post was edited on 2/3 at 12:09 pm


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magildachunks
Member since Oct 2006
11171 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


I see where Freeman is making his mistake. It's all in what you look at in the data, according to this report. And he is looking for the wrong thing.

quote:

As state tax shortfalls have grown and budgets have been cut, legislators have been forced to weigh expenditures on film credits with those on other types of economic development programs and more general state spending. The Ernst & Young LLP report discusses the framework for evaluating the effectiveness of film credit programs. The primary objective of the programs is to increase private-sector economic activity. This is a broader perspective for evaluating a film credit’s effectiveness than simply asking if a credit “pays for itself” by generating additional state taxes that exceed the state cost of the credit.

“The main focus of the evaluations of film credits to-date has been whether or not the credits ‘pay for themselves’ through higher state and local tax collections,” said Cline. “But the more important issue for policy makers to focus on as they evaluate state film credits is the effectiveness of film credits compared to other state economic development programs in terms of jobs and economic development.”




LINK






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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16339 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


I was looking for bottom line. The forbes article provided it. You can post whatever else you like. The bottom line is the bottom line. You advocate cutting the bottom line by a billion dollars. Brilliant.





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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5508 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

I was looking for bottom line. The forbes article provided it. You can post whatever else you like. The bottom line is the bottom line. You advocate cutting the bottom line by a billion dollars. Brilliant.


What bottom line???

I bet you this if Jindal was not afraid of the MSM that owns a lot of the LLCs directly and indirectly that receive this welfare he would be opposed to the credits.

It doesn't work and anyone should be able to do the math and see that.

You have been arguing for days that it is good for the state tax revenue and now you change your position that some magically bottom line is what important. Apparently even you can see that the $5.71 in your link results in only about $.60 in tax revenue resulting in a huge loss for taxpayers.

None of you welfare lovers ever post a link from the film industry that takes into consideration the opportunity cost of leaving the cost of the welfare in the hands of the taxpayers.



This post was edited on 2/3 at 12:26 pm


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16339 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

What bottom line???


quote:

numbers that reflect the annual total economic impact on Louisiana’s economy – data that can also be found on BaxStarr’s Economic Impact Analysis. In 2010, the total economic output surpassed $1.1 billion, which is about $5.71 brought into the state for every $1 tax credit issued by the state

quote:



You have be arguing for days that it is good for the state tax revenue and now you change your position that some magically bottom line is what important.


No. You have been arguing for days it is not good for revenue. You never presented any evidence backing your claim. You can whine and posit all you want....bottom line is:about $5.71 brought into the state for every $1 tax credit issued by the state.







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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16339 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

welfare lovers

That reminds me of what an IRS agent once told me before a tax trial.

"Your clients problem is he is thinking of it as his money"






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5508 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

“The main focus of the evaluations of film credits to-date has been whether or not the credits ‘pay for themselves’ through higher state and local tax collections,” said Cline. “But the more important issue for policy makers to focus on as they evaluate state film credits is the effectiveness of film credits compared to other state economic development programs in terms of jobs and economic development.”


So even Ernst and Young will not claim that the tax credits enhance state revenues.

They don't endorse the credits. They merely say they should be evaluated compared to other state economic development programs.

Most of the jobs the films "create" are temporary--ie The Talk.

Of course giving businesses 30% of their expenses will result in jobs and economic activity. But we are not giving these incentives once. We are giving them again and again. We are being held hostage by a bunch of out of state film makers. If we don't bribe them they will leave. If we continue to bribe them we will take more and more away from the other employers in our state.

I would much, much rather spend $200 + million a year on tax cuts for all businesses or if we must on brick and mortar businesses.

I would like to pay Ernst and Young to report on the negative impact on the film tax credits on other industries in the state.

(You do realize don't you there are some people making very big salaries at LED that do not want to see LED's budget and power shrink? What is Moret's salary? $500,000+. It is only natural they will try to make a case they are doing good. They are not going to post something that makes the leges look bad for spending this welfare.)



This post was edited on 2/3 at 12:49 pm


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16339 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


Post Numbers. I did. Why can't you?

quote:

So even Ernst and Young will not claim that the tax credits enhance state revenues.

Link? Id like to research your source.






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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
5508 posts

re: "The Talk" seeks $1 million in film welfare for $870,000 in La temporary jobs


quote:

bottom line is:about $5.71 brought into the state for every $1 tax credit issued by the state.


Ok so you now admit they do not pay for themselves through state tax collections.






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