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quail man 
USA Fan
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since May 2010
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 11:39 am to Broski)
if you look at the first page, I was supplying good information, keeping debate going. not my fault dude can't spell
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TigerinATL 
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2005
26151 posts
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 11:41 am to realtalk)
quote:
I don't agree here. So his emotions on the sideline are fake?
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. Winning is a goal, it's just a secondary goal to player development. There were multiple times last night when LA was making a run on the bench unit and a coach that had winning as his primary goal rather than getting experience for his best friend's son would have called a timeout and put at least one of the starting guards back in. But Monty let things roll and get out of hand.
As far as Davis and the 4th quarter, the only thing that makes sense is something eyeryan said about Anderson and Davis not being a good defensive pairing. This thread isn't aimed at absolving blame, it's intended to adjust expectations. People have complained about Monty's rotations from day 1, he definitely has different ideas than most of us on who should be playing when. And I really hope Rivers succeeds and I think he has the potential too, but I'm a little concerned about Rivers success being so personal to Monty. So there are definitely things to worry about and complain about, but losing shouldn't be one of them and calling someone who's not trying to win a bad coach is stupid.
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quail man
USA Fan
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Member since May 2010
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 11:43 am to TigerinATL)
quote:
Anderson and Davis not being a good defensive pairing.
have these two ever been on the court together? i'd love to at least see what happens when they are...i think maybe earlier in the season it happened, but I can't think of anything recently.
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JayJay2 
West Virginia Fan
cane sweeeeeeet tea, Luzianne
Member since Jul 2010
8587 posts
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 11:45 am to quail man)
Maybe early in the season but not enough too notice if they have. It all depends on who the opponent is playing. Maybe they can do that with the mavericks and magic, probably the wizards 
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Cap Crunch 
Navy Fan
Reggie's
Member since Dec 2010
17590 posts
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 11:50 am to TigerinATL)
This is the new tank vs. anti tank debate
That being said, I agree with your main point, but in some games, like last night, I think that Monty can afford to be a little less conservative
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GynoSandberg 
Clemson Fan
Member since Jan 2006
26600 posts
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 11:58 am to quail man)
quote:
have these two ever been on the court together?
373 minutes this season. The numbers aren't pretty when they play together.
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jkerr4LSU
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2012
120 posts
| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 12:02 pm to TigerinATL)
Whenever Monty said MIDSEASON that I want to find a rotation that will help us win, I immediately was thinking to myself that he had to have been joking, you should have a decent feel as to who should be out there just based on preseason and what you have seen in practice and then twike it as the season goes on by one player or so. I have seen 3 or 4 different rotations/ placing players out of position(davis or vasquez at 3, Really?!). If this is my team, Anderson, Gordon and Davis each get at least 32 mpg, aminu and vasquez gets about 28 mpg, lopez gets about 20, smith gets about 15, rivers and mason get about 13 at pg(he looks more comfortable there from what i have seen). Your closing lineup, which needs to be in at about 6 minutes to go in the game, is and always is:
Vasquez
Gordon
Aminu
Anderson
Davis
Not that hard Monty, please get with the program, just because you lost like hell last year does not mean that doing that this year is ok.
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JayJay2
West Virginia Fan
cane sweeeeeeet tea, Luzianne
Member since Jul 2010
8587 posts
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 12:08 pm to jkerr4LSU)
You didn't see posts above you about how bad it looks when Anderson and Davis is out there together?
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Gtothemoney
New Orleans Saints Fan
Da North Shore
Member since Sep 2012
1219 posts
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 12:09 pm to TigerinATL)
quote:
I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. Winning is a goal, it's just a secondary goal to player development. There were multiple times last night when LA was making a run on the bench unit and a coach that had winning as his primary goal rather than getting experience for his best friend's son would have called a timeout and put at least one of the starting guards back in. But Monty let things roll and get out of hand
Omg. This. There are soon many times it is obvious we need a t.o. And Monty lets it go. It goes from being a 10-0 run to a 18-2 run and we're done.
quote:
And I really hope Rivers succeeds and I think he has the potential too, but I'm a little concerned about Rivers success being so personal to Monty. So there are definitely things to worry about and complain about, but losing shouldn't be one of them and calling someone who's not trying to win a bad coach is stupid.
Another good point. I wonder how much of a leash Austin would have if he wasn't Doc's son?
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corndeaux 
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2009
3015 posts
| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 12:14 pm to GynoSandberg)
quote:
The numbers aren't pretty when they play together
They aren't super, but they aren't disastrous either.
According to 82games, the Gordon/Vasquez/Aminu/Anderson/Davis lineup is 1.09 PPP on offense, 1.05 PPP on defense in 42 minutes (the most used Davis/Anderson lineup)
Dominic McGuire and Austin Rivers figure prominently in 4 of the top 7 lineups, by minutes played, involving Anderson/Davis
LINK
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JayJay2
West Virginia Fan
cane sweeeeeeet tea, Luzianne
Member since Jul 2010
8587 posts
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 12:17 pm to Gtothemoney)
Would it matter? I mean honestly they're both rookies and you have to see if they're capable or not. If you don't let them play you can't see, you dig it? Just like pretty soon you'll be seeing miller on the court.
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GynoSandberg
Clemson Fan
Member since Jan 2006
26600 posts
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 12:31 pm to corndeaux)
Im looking at 2 man combination with Davis and Anderson. -15 points minus opponents points, -2 rebounds minues opponents rebounds, among other things. They are negative almost across the board including FG%, AST etc.
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corndeaux
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2009
3015 posts
| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 12:33 pm to GynoSandberg)
gotcha.
where are you getting the numbers?
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quail man
USA Fan
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since May 2010
15452 posts
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 12:59 pm to GynoSandberg)
Any idea how those numbers are with and without Gordon back? Or just the website where you are finding these so I can have a look? Really interesting stuff, though...does explain a good bit.
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MrWiseGuy
USA Fan
Member since Dec 2009
8457 posts
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 1:08 pm to quail man)
82games.com
Maybe not this website.
Curious as well, Gyno.
What's the site?
This post was edited on 1/30 at 1:16 pm
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Noplacelikehome
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2010
949 posts
| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 1:18 pm to TigerinATL)
quote:
Vasquez 34.3 mpg
Anderson 31.6 mpg
Gordon 29.6 mpg
Davis 28.7 mpg
Rivers 23.8 mpg
So your top minutes guy isn't even one of your best 3 players, your best 3 players are barely getting starters minutes, and one of your worst players is getting 6th man minutes.
Vasquez is the only PG on the team who deserves to play more than 20 min. Davis and Anderson play the same position so 29-31 min each is pretty good. Gordon is coming back from a serious injury so why would you rush him back to play 35 min or more per game when he is a franchise player?
Since Jan. 1st (When Gordon came back) Rivers is only averaging about 15 min per game. He had to play those extra mins bc there was no one else.
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TigerinATL
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2005
26151 posts
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| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 1:35 pm to Noplacelikehome)
quote:
Vasquez is the only PG on the team who deserves to play more than 20 min. Davis and Anderson play the same position so 29-31 min each is pretty good. Gordon is coming back from a serious injury so why would you rush him back to play 35 min or more per game when he is a franchise player?
I'm not saying the minutes distribution should change, I'm just saying it's not indicative of a playoff team trying to win which is the measuring stick people upset with losses are trying to apply.
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LosLobos111
New Orleans Saints Fan
Full Synchronization
Member since Feb 2011
7136 posts
| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 1:39 pm to TigerinATL)
I just think some people are just really impatient. We knew from the get go that this season will be about gelling together and getting experience.
While at times i'm a little perplexed by monty's choices sometimes(AD not in the 4th is one) I'm not going to say "Oh we can do better blah blah which i think is very dumb of people to say right now.
Patience people it pays off
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GynoSandberg
Clemson Fan
Member since Jan 2006
26600 posts
Online
| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 2:12 pm to corndeaux)
Check out the Hornets basketball reference page. Locate the "other" tab, and from there select "lineups". You can see all the combinations there.
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TigerinATL
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Feb 2005
26151 posts
Online
| re: This Team is not Good and Monty isn't Playing to Win (Posted on 1/30/13 at 2:22 pm to GynoSandberg)
Thanks, not exactly but pointed me in the right direction. Lineup isn't available under team, but under specific players.
Here's AD LINK /
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