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SlowFlowPro 
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263434 posts
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| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 1:29 pm to VOR)
i pasted them onto this page 
quote:
i have 2 simple questions:
1. what are the limits of the federal government?
2. assuming your argument is true, how can we respect ANY part of the constitution (namely the first amendment)?
*ETA: when i said "this" page above, i thought it would be on page 6 again. but i certainly just posted them on THIS page
This post was edited on 1/27 at 1:29 pm
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NC_Tigah 
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40149 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 1:34 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
that as late as the time DIRECTLY before the new deal, the population/government believed such an expansive federal policy required an amendment. after the new deal, that policy was as simple as a congressional law
Interesting perspective. 
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1990 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 2:32 pm to corndeaux)
quote:
this is why we vote and hold elections. the power ultimately rests in the collective people
This is why democracies end up in socialism, communism, and brutality.
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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
19215 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 2:39 pm to SoulGlo)
quote:
This is why democracies end up in socialism, communism, and brutality
What democracy has ever ended up like that?
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1990 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 2:40 pm to VOR)
quote:
Of course, we'll never know, but I would bet the farm that the framers would take positions on modern constitutional issues that would make some of our constitutional conservatives on this site shite their pants. It is fricking absurd to assume that they thought it would be necessary to adopt dozens and dozens of amendments to address each and every specific issue arising from the nonsense on the part of rabid, strict constructionists. The argument from some of you, who clearly have some intelligence, is mind blowing.
“The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce. ... The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives and liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement and prosperity of the State.”
? James Madison
The federal government isn't supposed to have a law for everything. That's what state governments are for. It also gives people ultimate freedom. If your state passes laws that you don't agree with, you can go to a state that does. It is your ignorance or denial of this that is mind blowing.
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1990 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 2:53 pm to Vegas Bengal)
quote:
quote:
This is why democracies end up in socialism, communism, and brutality
What democracy has ever ended up like that?
Look no further than Venezuela as a current model. Everything's wonderful there, right?
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dr smartass phd
LSU Fan
Pennsylvania
Member since Sep 2004
10229 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 3:09 pm to SoulGlo)
The Constitution is the federal governments owners manual on what it can and cannot do, why try to over complicate the explanation of it. If something is ambiguous, go to the schematic called the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers.
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1990 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 3:17 pm to dr smartass phd)
quote:
The Constitution is the federal governments owners manual on what it can and cannot do, why try to over complicate the explanation of it. If something is ambiguous, go to the schematic called the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers.
That's too much work for people who think that "we can't know what they meant."
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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
19215 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 3:23 pm to SoulGlo)
quote:
Look no further than Venezuela as a current model. Everything's wonderful there, right?
So you're an "elitist"?
So what do you advocate? Monarchy? Dictatorship? Or a limited Democratic Republic where the people with whom you disagree are not allowed to vote? And wouldn't any of those alternatives lead to what you fear? Even a greater chance?
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dr smartass phd
LSU Fan
Pennsylvania
Member since Sep 2004
10229 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 3:24 pm to SoulGlo)
quote:
That's too much work for people who think that "we can't know what they meant."
It kills me, that someone tries to explain it in a convoluted thirty page thesis, when it can be summed up in two sentences.
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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
19215 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 3:32 pm to dr smartass phd)
If the federal government was always as limited as you guys want it, we wouldn't be as advanced as we are. Where in he Constitution does Congress have the power to build an interstate system, or form NASA, or the CDC or a whole host of other advancements.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263434 posts
Online
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 3:39 pm to Vegas Bengal)
quote:
If the federal government was always as limited as you guys want it, we wouldn't be as advanced as we are.
that's bullshite
the biggest increase in standard of living occurred before the new deal (during the industrial revolution)
advances are due to society, not government. government creates inefficiencies in the market and inhibits advancement
quote:
Where in he Constitution does Congress have the power to build an interstate system, or form NASA, or the CDC or a whole host of other advancements.
why do you presume that any possible advancement couldn't be produced by the private market or states?
this is a rigged argument, also. the WORLD has advanced at an exponential rate in the post-industrial world. government has increased at the same time. it has commandeered our economy by force and taken money out of the private economy and spread it around so much that it's hard to find an advancement that had no association to public monies. therefore it's rigged
that does NOT mean that advancements were made due to government
and the interstate system is a national defense program disguised as domestic policy
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Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
19215 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 3:49 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
why do you presume that any possible advancement couldn't be produced by the private market or states?
1. Too much money.
2. Too much differences in the states.
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SoulGlo
LSU Fan
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
1990 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 4:16 pm to Vegas Bengal)
quote:
quote:
Look no further than Venezuela as a current model. Everything's wonderful there, right?
So you're an "elitist"?
So what do you advocate? Monarchy? Dictatorship? Or a limited Democratic Republic where the people with whom you disagree are not allowed to vote? And wouldn't any of those alternatives lead to what you fear? Even a greater chance?
0/4 there, pal. Nice try.
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HempHead 
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 4:17 pm to Vegas Bengal)
quote:
Vegas Bengal
Democracy - The God That Failed - Hans Hermann-Hoppe
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263434 posts
Online
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 4:18 pm to Vegas Bengal)
quote:
1. Too much money.
where does the federal government get its money? magic?
quote:
2. Too much differences in the states.
since when has competition hurt advancement?
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dr smartass phd
LSU Fan
Pennsylvania
Member since Sep 2004
10229 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 4:21 pm to SlowFlowPro)
quote:
2. Too much differences in the states.
since when has competition hurt advancement?
I don't think she gets the Laboratories of Democracy thing.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263434 posts
Online
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 4:45 pm to Vegas Bengal)
quote:
I think you know.
the same place states get it: us
quote:
and if you want to argue private business would have gone to the moon and sent up a pace shuttle as early as we did
going to the moon is pointless. the technology we gained form it is useful. i do believe that private industry could have achieved the same technological adavncement
quote:
if you want to argue that states and private business would have done as good a job as the Feds in terms of grants in medicine for vaccines etc
i certainly believe this
vaccines are valuable to combat disease. why would they fail to have a place in the market?
why don't you answer the 2 questions i asked, most recently posted on page 7?
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Antonio Moss
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2006
25300 posts
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 7:34 pm to Vegas Bengal)
quote:
Democratic Republic
This isn't a real thing. Pet peeve of mine. You're either a Republic or a Democracy. You can't be both.
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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Equality is a circle, not a =
Member since Jan 2004
263434 posts
Online
| re: "The founding fathers didn't know about x, y, or z. Things have changed since.. (Posted on 1/27/13 at 7:34 pm to Antonio Moss)
nobody wants to answer my questions 
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