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re: Was Spags being fired completely based on the worst defense in history...
Posted on 1/27/13 at 8:32 am to Mouth
Posted on 1/27/13 at 8:32 am to Mouth
quote:
Did he sit back this year and realize the 3-4 scheme is just more successful and may be better suited for our personnel? So he pulled the plug while he knew he could?
This IMO. I think he was sitting around and the wheels were spinning, and this was just the first opportunity he could
1
Posted on 1/27/13 at 9:34 am to Swagga
Do we have a FATASS to put in at nose?
3-4 has more ability to cover the pass crazy offenses of the world. Then all you need is an extra fat boy to throw in for running situations.
As was already mentioned. It is all about base personnel and what they are suited for. You can always flex in and out of 3-4 or 4-3. There is a learning curve though that I worry about, but nowhere to go but up after the worst defensive performance in history.
I am still not excited about firing Spagnola. Unless they get a Crennell type name I will be unhappy. Spagnola was thrown under the bus for a season that was "lost" anyway. Defense was porous at best even during Super Bowl year (still love saying that). I guess they (Payton and Spagnola) never got to mesh as the shitstorm hit right after he was hired. Maybe a LOT behind the scenes that went on. Their first meeting when Sean got back may have went poorly. Two cocky guys with rings telling each other to frick off.?? Who knows.
3-4 has more ability to cover the pass crazy offenses of the world. Then all you need is an extra fat boy to throw in for running situations.
As was already mentioned. It is all about base personnel and what they are suited for. You can always flex in and out of 3-4 or 4-3. There is a learning curve though that I worry about, but nowhere to go but up after the worst defensive performance in history.
I am still not excited about firing Spagnola. Unless they get a Crennell type name I will be unhappy. Spagnola was thrown under the bus for a season that was "lost" anyway. Defense was porous at best even during Super Bowl year (still love saying that). I guess they (Payton and Spagnola) never got to mesh as the shitstorm hit right after he was hired. Maybe a LOT behind the scenes that went on. Their first meeting when Sean got back may have went poorly. Two cocky guys with rings telling each other to frick off.?? Who knows.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 2:55 pm to STEVED00
7 -9 PLUS THE WORDT DEFENSE
Posted on 1/27/13 at 8:15 pm to Mouth
quote:
or was it based more on the fact that Payton just wants to switch to a 3-4 defense?
Did he sit back this year and realize the 3-4 scheme is just more successful and may be better suited for our personnel? So he pulled the plug while he knew he could?
I'm all about the 3-4 defense back in the Dome!
I'd put it this way. In Payton's opinion, this was about the easiest time he would ever get to make a decision like this. There were VERY few things keeping him from making the move...including Spagnuolo. It wasn't a hard decision.
Posted on 1/27/13 at 8:17 pm to bigwheel
quote:
7 -9 PLUS THE WORDT DEFENSE
Posted on 1/31/13 at 10:45 am to Hoodoo Man
liked this Gil Brandt comment HERE-
Longtime NFL draft guru Gil Brandt, who now works as an analyst for NFL.com, said he does see more pass rushers who fit the 3-4 system coming out of college these days.
But he said that probably only played a small part in the Saints' decision to switch defenses after their historically-poor performance in 2012 under first-year defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo.
"Probably what Sean felt, that when you give up 7,000 yards and all those things, you gotta try something different," Brandt said. "And the No. 1 thing about Sean, he doesn't let any grass grow under his feet."
Longtime NFL draft guru Gil Brandt, who now works as an analyst for NFL.com, said he does see more pass rushers who fit the 3-4 system coming out of college these days.
But he said that probably only played a small part in the Saints' decision to switch defenses after their historically-poor performance in 2012 under first-year defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo.
"Probably what Sean felt, that when you give up 7,000 yards and all those things, you gotta try something different," Brandt said. "And the No. 1 thing about Sean, he doesn't let any grass grow under his feet."
Posted on 1/31/13 at 11:13 am to Mouth
I really hope the first round pick is a good one. REALLY need it to be!
Posted on 1/31/13 at 11:58 am to gjackx
Y'all don't think personnel had anything to do with how crappy our defense was?
And that's why I laugh at the folks that think Goodell alone kept the Saints from SB glory.
IMO, you can add CSP, Gregg Williams, Buddy Ryan, Ditka, Vince Lombardi to the coaching staff ... our defense simply is not that good with the current players we have.
And that's why I laugh at the folks that think Goodell alone kept the Saints from SB glory.
IMO, you can add CSP, Gregg Williams, Buddy Ryan, Ditka, Vince Lombardi to the coaching staff ... our defense simply is not that good with the current players we have.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 12:09 pm to navy
Our defense wasn't nearly as bad the year before, and we had arguably worse personnel that year. Our entire organizational structure was flipped on it's head, and you could see the effects on the ENTIRE team. It was much more pronounced with the defense because the scheme we were running really didn't fit our players, especially in the secondary. A lot of those guys really didn't know how to play zone.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 12:29 pm to Patrick O Rly
But Spags had done well in STL with a young defense, did he not?
There was a reason the Saints hired him.
There was a reason the Saints hired him.
Posted on 1/31/13 at 12:38 pm to navy
quote:
But Spags had done well in STL with a young defense, did he not?
There was a reason the Saints hired him.
Yeah. I think his scheme would have worked, but we were gonna need some more roster turnover and a fully functioning offense.
Posted on 2/1/13 at 9:35 am to Patrick O Rly
The anonymous quotes before he was fired to the lack of positive comments after he was lead me to think the primary reason for his failure was the inability to make the best use of the skills his players had. That is, he tried too much to make the players fit his scheme than adapt his scheme to the players skills.
Patrick Robinson was drafted for his speed and man coverage skills more than anything else. He is a talented player. He looked lost in zone coverage though.
If Gregg Williams did one thing good it was his implementation of Roman Harper. He fully utilized what he does best- in the box play. Harper's coverage actually looked better to me in the Spags scheme. His in the box skills were used nowhere near enough though.
It seemed like it took much too long for Spags to recognize that our front 4 personnel did not have the skills to provide the necessary pass rush. Yes, GW went schitzo-overboard with blitzing but supplemental pass rushers were obviously necessary.
Corey White showed some promise after being thrown into the fire. Those first weeks were incredibly painful and costly though. When Elbert Mack finally stuck he showed he deserved a place. I wonder if Spags went forward with White cuz he was "his guy". If so, that sort of "I'll show you he can play" decisions that don't fully pan out can cost a team dearly.
Why oh why the frick was Fatass Sedrick Ellis in there after it was clear he had no special fire to perform in a contract year? After playoff elimination he should have been gone. Akiem Hicks raw skills were obvious to anyone watching. He could have doubled his reps to get vital experience to hone his skills.
Was shoeing Hawthorne into SLB a mistake? he publicly commented on his difficulty with a position he had not played. * for Hawthorne this year too. I suspect he played through injury and was less than 100%.
We're all getting tired of Malcolm Jenkins but he didn't look nearly as lost in GWs scheme.
We're excited about the potential for Tez Wilson & Galette in a 3-4 scheme. Still, there had to be a way to better utilize them and have more reps even in the 4-3.
I see those sort of DC personnel decisions as THE main factor of the Spags fail.
Patrick Robinson was drafted for his speed and man coverage skills more than anything else. He is a talented player. He looked lost in zone coverage though.
If Gregg Williams did one thing good it was his implementation of Roman Harper. He fully utilized what he does best- in the box play. Harper's coverage actually looked better to me in the Spags scheme. His in the box skills were used nowhere near enough though.
It seemed like it took much too long for Spags to recognize that our front 4 personnel did not have the skills to provide the necessary pass rush. Yes, GW went schitzo-overboard with blitzing but supplemental pass rushers were obviously necessary.
Corey White showed some promise after being thrown into the fire. Those first weeks were incredibly painful and costly though. When Elbert Mack finally stuck he showed he deserved a place. I wonder if Spags went forward with White cuz he was "his guy". If so, that sort of "I'll show you he can play" decisions that don't fully pan out can cost a team dearly.
Why oh why the frick was Fatass Sedrick Ellis in there after it was clear he had no special fire to perform in a contract year? After playoff elimination he should have been gone. Akiem Hicks raw skills were obvious to anyone watching. He could have doubled his reps to get vital experience to hone his skills.
Was shoeing Hawthorne into SLB a mistake? he publicly commented on his difficulty with a position he had not played. * for Hawthorne this year too. I suspect he played through injury and was less than 100%.
We're all getting tired of Malcolm Jenkins but he didn't look nearly as lost in GWs scheme.
We're excited about the potential for Tez Wilson & Galette in a 3-4 scheme. Still, there had to be a way to better utilize them and have more reps even in the 4-3.
I see those sort of DC personnel decisions as THE main factor of the Spags fail.
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