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TK421 
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Member since Oct 2011
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| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:03 am to buddhavista)
quote:
There are many different ways to structure belief systems.
Maybe so, but a basic tenet of all ethical systems is the protection of human life. Something that pro-abortion individuals necessarily set aside.
quote:
This is why you lose arguments.
Winning or losing the argument does not mean those of us who do not believe in infanticide are wrong.
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USMCTiger03
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2007
58393 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:03 am to AlaTiger)
Honestly, if I allowed myself to dwell on these things it wouldn't end well for anyone.
quote:
How can anyone think that that Pro-Choicers care anything at all about children?
They care about the special ones, but are okay with vacuuming out the brains of the non-special ones.
Sick fricks.
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Broketec
LSU Fan
Dumpster Fire
Member since Sep 2006
1064 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:05 am to AlaTiger)
quote:
She is very clear.
Her opinion and beliefs is not that of others. My understanding is just fine.
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Broketec
LSU Fan
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Member since Sep 2006
1064 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:07 am to TK421)
quote:
TK421
I think you do not understand the definition of infantacide.
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buddhavista
Member since Jul 2012
3543 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:08 am to TK421)
quote:
Maybe so, but a basic tenet of all ethical systems is the protection of human life. Something that pro-abortion individuals necessarily set aside.
a) this is clearly not the case. There are belief systems were human life is not protected. Communist regimes like USSR and communist china had little protection of human life. It was not valued.
b) Its easy to frame the argument that abortion does protect human life, that of the potential mother. This is the net of the argument, the rights of the potential mother to the rights of the potential baby.
quote:
Winning or losing the argument does not mean those of us who do not believe in infanticide are wrong.
I don't believe in right or wrong to tell you the truth. But you still lose arguments, and society continues to support abortion rights. if it didn't, then they would be removed.
This post was edited on 1/24 at 10:09 am
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AlaTiger
LSU Fan
Alabama
Member since Aug 2006
9993 posts
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| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:09 am to Broketec)
quote:
Her opinion and beliefs is not that of others. My understanding is just fine.
She is representing a move in Planned Parenthood. Her beliefs are becoming mainstream even though they have existed with the pro-choice community for decades.
You said that she was not saying that abortion was the taking of life and that it was the killing of babies. Then, you called my OP a steaming pile of rhetoric.
I quoted her and addressed her argument. You can deal with what SHE is saying and what Salon.com is promoting and a growing admission within the Pro-Choice camp, or you can level sophomoric attacks against anyone you disagree with. You chose the latter which tells me that your understanding is quite flawed, actually.
Say something intelligent about what SHE advocates and we can proceed. If not, I'll respond to others and let you be.
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joshnorris14 
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19533 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:10 am to buddhavista)
quote:
I don't believe in right or wrong to tell you the truth.
Yes you do.
You might be a moral subjectivist, but it is impossible to be an actor and not believe in right or wrong.
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Broketec
LSU Fan
Dumpster Fire
Member since Sep 2006
1064 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:10 am to TK421)
quote:
TK421
I think you do not understand the definition of infantacide.
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Pierre
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Nov 2005
3794 posts
Online
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:11 am to AlaTiger)
What difference does it make?
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Rex
LSU Fan
Here, there, and nowhere
Member since Sep 2004
47458 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:11 am to AlaTiger)
quote:
Pro-Lifers have won this argument from every possible philosophical and ethical direction,
Ethics favors the person, not the non-person. A "human life" is not a person... both the sperm and egg cells are each "human life".
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What makes us different from Nazi Germany when we have killed 55 million babies and it is now being admitted that yes, we did legally KILL 55 million BABIES???
Nazi Germany killed THIKING, FEELING persons. There... you just lost the philosophical argument as well.
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TK421
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
5105 posts
Online
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:15 am to buddhavista)
quote:
There are belief systems were human life is not protected. Communist regimes like USSR and communist china had little protection of human life. It was not valued.
I specifically stated ethical systems. I doubt even you would make that argument.
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Its easy to frame the argument that abortion does protect human life, that of the potential mother.
This is a completely separate issue. Abortion in the case of the health of the mother is not what is usually being referred to in these discussions. The willful termination of life out of a convenience is the facet of abortion I am talking about.
quote:
But you still lose arguments, and society continues to support abortion rights.
We live in a fricked up society.
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buddhavista
Member since Jul 2012
3543 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:24 am to TK421)
quote:
I specifically stated ethical systems. I doubt even you would make that argument.
Errr, the leaders of the USSR had a belief system to guide their choices. It was some fricked up interpretation of utilitarianism.
quote:
This is a completely separate issue. Abortion in the case of the health of the mother is not what is usually being referred to in these discussions. The willful termination of life out of a convenience is the facet of abortion I am talking about.
No its the exact same issue. Abortion is a decision between the rights of the potential mother (i.e. to control her body and protecting her "life", i.e. not being a mother) and the rights of the potential baby (to live).
BTW, this is why the argument is lost with many people. They can picture being a mother or father and not wanting to be. they can't picture being an infant. People judge arguments from what they would want for themselves. This is a big reason females are more ok with abortion than males, since they are the one that is inconvenienced.
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los angeles tiger
LSU Fan
1,601 miles from Tiger Stadium
Member since Oct 2003
54242 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:28 am to Rex)
quote:
Nazi Germany killed THIKING, FEELING persons
You would have lived well in Nazi Germany.
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AlaTiger
LSU Fan
Alabama
Member since Aug 2006
9993 posts
Online
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:33 am to Rex)
quote:
Ethics favors the person, not the non-person. A "human life" is not a person... both the sperm and egg cells are each "human life".
You have no basis upon which to make this argument. None at all. You just pull it out of thin air.
quote:
Nazi Germany killed THIKING, FEELING persons. There... you just lost the philosophical argument as well.
And at what point can the baby in the womb feel? At what point can they think? At what point after birth can they think? What level of thought is required for "personhood" in your opinion.
The point of this post is obvious in the quote and in the link. You are falling back into the old argument that is now being discredited by abortion-rights activists as they admit that it is untenable.
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TK421
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
5105 posts
Online
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:34 am to buddhavista)
quote:
This is a big reason females are more ok with abortion than males, since they are the one that is inconvenienced.
The argument should not be convenience. If our society has convinced women that they should terminate their pregnancies out of convenience, we have failed them.
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los angeles tiger
LSU Fan
1,601 miles from Tiger Stadium
Member since Oct 2003
54242 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:47 am to TK421)
His statement isn't true, because more women are against abortion now.
quote:
Women actually take a stronger pro-life view than men with 24 percent of American women wanting all abortions made illegal and 36 percent wanting almost all illegal, compared with 19 percent of men who want to ban all abortions and 42 percent of men who want to prohibit almost all.
LINK
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AlaTiger
LSU Fan
Alabama
Member since Aug 2006
9993 posts
Online
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:49 am to TK421)
Here is a radical thought:
Women could also decide to not have sex outside of marriage. That is a "choice" isn't it?
But, then they would not be as free with their sexuality and men would not have as much access and they would have to reserve sex for marriage more often. Men don't want that either.
So, men are as much in favor of abortion as women are because it allows for a "sex without consequence" ethic and frees women up to make the choice to have sex outside of marriage.
The whole thing is connected and yes, both men and women here are making choices all the time. And, they don't want consequences.
The result is that 55 million babies have been murdered. The other result is that we live in a society where people think that you can do whatever you want without any consequences because if they arise you can just abort them.
So, we are $16 Trillion in debt and headed for complete financial and societal collapse. The whole line of thinking is connected and anyone who disagrees with this just needs to spend some time connecting the dots.
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Rex
LSU Fan
Here, there, and nowhere
Member since Sep 2004
47458 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:50 am to AlaTiger)
quote:
by abortion-rights activists as they admit that it is untenable.
When and where did they admit that, because it's certainly not a part of anything you've linked or quoted.
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Turbeauxdog
LSU Fan
Member since Aug 2004
4707 posts
Online
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:52 am to joshnorris14)
quote:
The ability a person has to evict an entity from their property (IE Their body).
That's just silly because you aren't considering all aspects of the entry to the "property" and the exit.
Simply doesn't stand up to even the most basic critical review IMO.
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buddhavista
Member since Jul 2012
3543 posts
| re: Pro-Abortionists Finally Admitting They are Killing Babies. And they don't care. (Posted on 1/24/13 at 10:54 am to TK421)
quote:
The argument should not be convenience. If our society has convinced women that they should terminate their pregnancies out of convenience, we have failed them.
Society is not convincing them. They are convincing themselves! They put themselves in the position of the individual and make the decision.
You need to look at the cult of individual and its importance in our politics for the root cause. If pro-life is a top motivating goal, a much better political system is a variant of collectivism where you could push the rights of the potential mother down saying they need to consider other people.
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