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joshnorris14 
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19554 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 12:06 am to ItNeverRains)
quote:
How about instead of someone saying their a small govt anti imperialist & entitlement conservative, you guys talk to the Libertarian Advisory Council and see if they can borrow fiscal libertarian and get back to them.
Sounds like a good idea, we'll try it out.
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Ex-Popcorn
Member since Nov 2005
670 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 1:36 pm to joshnorris14)
These last 4 pages explains why the NAP is not the lynchpin of libertarianism. People disagree too much on the literal meaning of "aggression." That's why the focus is (and should be) on property rights. Period.
If you must cling to NAP as the tell-tale sign that someone is libertarian or not, then you must define "aggression" as any act that deprives someone else of a superior property right.
Taking a dollar I earned at my job = aggression
Requiring me to wear a seatbelt = aggression
Banning cigarette smoking at my restaurant = aggression
Prohibiting me from smoking marijuana = aggression
Banning suicide = aggression
BTW, a true libertarian would reject all of these acts. You cannot be for some forms of aggression and against others. Just doesn't compute. Why not? Because unlike Republicans and Democrats, libertarianism is the only philosophically defensible political position.
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RollTide4Ever 
Alabama Fan
Nashville
Member since Nov 2006
8125 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 1:40 pm to joshnorris14)
Long concluded that Beck is a faux libertarian, possible plant. Wayne Allen Root is another one, Bill Cunningthem kills me with that schtick.
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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19554 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 2:09 pm to Ex-Popcorn)
You guys are unbelievable. There is no dospute over the meaning of aggression in relation to the NAP. In relation to the NAP, agression is the initiation or threat of force. No debate over the meaning of aggression on regards to the NAP at all.
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Diamondawg 
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
8271 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 2:14 pm to joshnorris14)
quote:
ou guys are unbelievable. There is no dospute over the meaning of aggression in relation to the NAP.
I read all of that crap and still don't know what is and what is not "aggression". How can there not be dispute?
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Ex-Popcorn
Member since Nov 2005
670 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 2:21 pm to joshnorris14)
There can be no aggression without first defining the property rights being deprived.
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Ex-Popcorn
Member since Nov 2005
670 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 2:23 pm to Ex-Popcorn)
quote:
read all of that crap and still don't know what is and what is not "aggression".
This is why using the NAP doesn't make sense. Everyone understands what a property right is, right?
Anything that threatens to deprive someone of a superior property right is "aggression" as far as libertarianism is concerned.
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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19554 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 2:59 pm to Ex-Popcorn)
I’ve already stated that the praxeological root for the NAP is the self ownership axiom
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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19554 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 3:01 pm to Diamondawg)
Your inability to understand the simple definition of aggression in relation to the NAP is a seperate issue
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Diamondawg
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
8271 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 4:11 pm to joshnorris14)
quote:
Your inability to understand the simple definition of aggression in relation to the NAP is a seperate issue
Apparently. Is Iran developing nuclear weapons considered aggression?
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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19554 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 4:17 pm to Diamondawg)
quote:
Apparently. Is Iran developing nuclear weapons considered aggression?
Aggression, again in relation to the NAP, is the initiation or the threat of force.
If Iran developed Nuclear Weapons and said "Give me 10% of your income every year or I'll use my nuclear weapon against you," then yes, that is aggression.
Simply developing nuclear weapons is no more aggressive than developing guns.
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Diamondawg
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
8271 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 4:19 pm to joshnorris14)
Takes years to develop. Say they succeeded and you did nothing to defend yourself. They move it 90 miles away from the US to Havana. Aggression?
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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19554 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 4:24 pm to Diamondawg)
quote:
Takes years to develop. Say they succeeded and you did nothing to defend yourself. They move it 90 miles away from the US to Havana. Aggression?
This is pointless. I gave you the fricking definition we are using. You're not going to trap me. I told you what would be aggression in your scenario.
Aggression is the initiation or threat of force (in regards to the NAP, AGAIN). If there is no initiation or threat, there is no aggression. So unless Iran uses the damn bomb, or threatens to use the bomb, there is no aggression.
In the scenario, the only aggression that takes place is the theft from Iranians that is conducted in order to develop the bomb.
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Diamondawg
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
8271 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 4:27 pm to joshnorris14)
quote:
You're not going to trap me
I already did. They are 90 miles away. You have no defense. They don't want 10% of you money; they want all of it.
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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19554 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 4:28 pm to Diamondawg)
What's it like to live in fear of something that is never going to happen?
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Diamondawg
Mississippi St. Fan
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
8271 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 4:32 pm to joshnorris14)
quote:
What's it like to live in fear of something that is never going to happen?
How is it living in a happy place that if "I leave everyone alone, everyone will leave me alone"?
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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19554 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 4:34 pm to Diamondawg)
quote:
How is it living in a happy place that if "I leave everyone alone, everyone will leave me alone"?
I don't know.
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HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
10139 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 4:40 pm to Diamondawg)
quote:
How is it living in a happy place that if "I leave everyone alone, everyone will leave me alone"?
No libertarian is under the impression that violence will disappear.
It is a simple rejection of the initiation of force. There will be, of course, those who do not comply and will act aggressively against others. There are various market processes that can curb or inhibit this kind of behavior, but it will not disappear.
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joshnorris14
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19554 posts
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 4:41 pm to HempHead)
To add to that, the only people on earth who subscribe to "leaving everyone alone" are anarcho-primitivists.
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Gmorgan4982 
LSU Fan
Hattiesburg, Miss.
Member since May 2005
89934 posts
 Online
| re: I'm not a conspiracy guy, but Glenn Beck has to be a plant (Posted on 1/10/13 at 6:37 pm to joshnorris14)
quote:
This is pointless.
Pretty much. They aren't trying to have a conversation. They are trying to nit-pick (and doing a pretty horrible job at it, btw).
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