20 hour work week to solve poverty - Page 6 - TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
cssamerican
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2011
2258 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

When that trade benefits both nations, it does make sense.

It makes sense if you supply things that we cannot supply because of an inherit disadvantage. Or if there is a perceived superiority in one countries product over another.

For example, if the crawfish consumption in the United States exceeds our ability to provide crawfish then you import them in from China. That makes sense.

If you live in China and you want to eat the best crawfish you import them from Louisiana. That makes sense.

If you live in Louisiana and there is no shortage of Louisiana crawfish and you are buying crawfish that had to be shipped in from half way around the globe because they are half the price of the crawfish trapped 25 miles from your house...It does NOT make any sense! Something is wrong on an epic level.






Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
295872 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

All the while we are shutting down paper plants here in the USA. Because of trade agreements and regulations it is economically advantageous to pay the fuel charges to send pulp halfway around the world and then send it back than it is to do it here. How is that not the craziest thing you have ever heard.

it's not

not all labor is equal. third world labor is cheap and it makes our lives better to take advantage of it

quote:

a business climate that doesn't want jobs unless they are retail jobs.


that's not true. how is america still a top exporter if this were true?






Back to top
RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
91381 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty



quote:


See comment by cassamerican. What you think is a benefit is not exactly a benefit.



Just because you really want to believe something doesn't make it true.

quote:

The center of your universe is short term monetary gain, that is what you constitute as a benefit.



I swear you have never taken an econ class in your life.






Back to top
  Replies (0)
mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:


You seem to have a problem with economic calculation. I asked in a previous post, and I will ask again: what do you suggest as to the proper way to allocate goods and resources?


Your question is a bit bizarre.. and not really all that relative this.. but here is something.

I don't have a utopian answer for you.. I can tell you what we're doing is insane.

At the risk of repeating myself, I'll say that what cassamerican brought up is spot on. It's a great example of why simple economic calculation is not a good indicator of what is best.

It's cheaper to send China our wood pulp and then have them sell it back to us in the form of paper. Because of our business climate it's cheaper to pay for all of that oil to be wasted, and for Chinamen to get paid to do the work. We lose as a species because a valuable resource is wasted unnecessarily. And we lose as a nation because we lose jobs. So that simple calculation that it's cheaper to send them the pulp and buy back the paper isn't the full perspective, it's only part of it.

Whatever we device as a way to allocate our food products it should involve some common sense. UK shipped milk out of the country, and the same amount of milk was coming into the country. That is madness. Just visually imagine milk crossing the boarder one way, and different milk coming across the border the other way. Its mass madness.




This post was edited on 1/6 at 9:33 pm


Back to top
HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
15269 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

Your question a bit bizarre to say the least.


How so?

Your post denigrates those who place a value on monetary profit.

If one should not consider monetary profit when conducting trade, what should one consider?

FWIW, in css's response, it indicates that agreements and regulations have made it economically viable for these actions to occur. Perhaps removing impediments to true economic calculation could lead do a more appropriate practice.






Back to top
cssamerican
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2011
2258 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:


not all labor is equal. third world labor is cheap and it makes our lives better to take advantage of it

I am somewhat knowledgeable about this industry and in this case labor cost is not the driving reason. It is EPA regulations that make the cost of manufacturing locally obnoxiously expensive.

quote:


that's not true. how is America still a top exporter if this were true?

We might be a top exporter, I am not saying we are not. In my example we exported wood pulp. We are losing good jobs that require a good deal of skill such as manufacturing jobs while increasing lower paid and lower skilled jobs. It isn't always because of labor cost, I would argue it is rarely because of labor cost.






Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
295872 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

It makes sense if you supply things that we cannot supply because of an inherit disadvantage

like cheap labor?

quote:

If you live in Louisiana and there is no shortage of Louisiana crawfish and you are buying crawfish that had to be shipped in from half way around the globe because they are half the price of the crawfish trapped 25 miles from your house...It does NOT make any sense!

sure it makes sense. they're half the price






Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
295872 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

We lose as a species because a valuable resource is wasted unnecessarily. And we lose as a nation because we lose jobs.

so do you want America to take a step back in standard of living and give back the technology that we have been able to develop as a result of that standard of living?

i don't get your end goal except societal regression






Back to top
mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:



Your post denigrates those who place a value on monetary profit.

If one should not consider monetary profit when conducting trade, what should one consider?


Then I've failed to communicate.

I've said short term monetary value is what people are putting at the center of their universe. Not simply monetary profit. There is a distinction. The rippling effects of doing things with this short term thinking are not considered. To say we made a profit by shipping China wood pulp and letting them turn it to paper is not taking everything into perspective.



This post was edited on 1/6 at 9:39 pm


Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
295872 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

We are losing good jobs that require a good deal of skill such as manufacturing jobs

wait...what?

quote:

It isn't always because of labor cost, I would argue it is rarely because of labor cost.

ok i'll change it to "standard of living" b/c that will cover the labor costs and environmental issues






Back to top
  Replies (0)
cssamerican
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2011
2258 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

sure it makes sense. they're half the price

What doesn't make sense is how in the hell are they half price? Is the Chinese government subsidizing them? Hell, are we subsidizing them? Are our FDA, USDA or whatever agencies requirements causing the price difference? End the end if it is only labor cost I am okay with it, but I would bet a lot of money there is much more to it than that.






Back to top
mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:


so do you want America to take a step back in standard of living and give back the technology that we have been able to develop as a result of that standard of living?

i don't get your end goal except societal regression



Wow.






Back to top
HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
15269 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


Those who fail to consider long term consequences of the use of their goods and capital will eventually no longer be in possession of it.

I must also reiterate that, at least as it appears (as I do not have all the facts), the trade conundrum that was presented earlier was due to interference with what a business might otherwise do, were they not under the heavy hand of a government.






Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
295872 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

Wow.

our standard of living is more expensive and that means we have increased costs for things like better roads, better environments, and higher labor costs

china's standard of living is lower, so it costs less to produce goods there. that lowers costs for america while removing shitty manual labor more and more from our economy so that we can shift to jobs higher on the spectrum

what do you think we do with all that extra time and money? make better technologies and make life better

the only way we go back to a sustainable primary and secondary economy is to give up those advances






Back to top
  Replies (0)
mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


I honestly feel like you're an automated response machine. This is odd.

You're telling me about failing to consider long term consequences, really?






Back to top
SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
295872 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

You're telling me about failing to consider long term consequences, really?

yes

why is America so much more advanced than the third world? why have we advanced more in the past 15 years than they've advanced in the past 50?

allocation of resources and our elite standard of living






Back to top
RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
91381 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

What doesn't make sense is how in the hell are they half price? Is the Chinese government subsidizing them? Hell, are we subsidizing them? Are our FDA, USDA or whatever agencies requirements causing the price difference? End the end if it is only labor cost I am okay with it, but I would bet a lot of money there is much more to it than that.



If you are talking about pulp, the problem is resources, not wages. Probably the same with many natural resource imports/exports. We can only produce so much material.

Public lands are not nearly as available as in the past for logging, and many public lands require secondary processing and added value before logs can be sold. We probably have to import many products to meet demand.




This post was edited on 1/6 at 9:48 pm


Back to top
mograyback
Missouri Fan
Member since Jul 2011
7102 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


This is getting too weird for me, have a good night people.

I'm not sure how we went from talking about the stupidity of shipping products all over the world, in many cases shipping out the same products we're shipping in... to the question of why America is the most advanced in the world. We have some serious differences in world view and philosophy.. not sure continuing the conversation has any point.






Back to top
HempHead
Alabama Fan
Appalachia
Member since Mar 2011
15269 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

I honestly feel like you're an automated response machine. This is odd.


Perhaps I am.

quote:

You're telling me about failing to consider long term consequences, really?


Yes. You are worried that current holders of resources engage in what you determine to be a pursuit of only short term profit. I am merely stating that those who do not calculate for the future are doomed to lose their holdings.

You make the mistake of assuming that I am 100% in favor the policies you are describing. I only support them inasmuch as they relate to individuals freely exchanging their property with other individuals in order to reach an agreement. Whether or not they are successfully doing so is not much of my concern.



This post was edited on 1/6 at 9:51 pm


Back to top
  Replies (0)
cssamerican
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2011
2258 posts

re: 20 hour work week to solve poverty


quote:

If you are talking about pulp, the problem is resources, not wages. Probably the same with many natural resource imports/exports. We can only produce so much material.

Public lands are not nearly as available as in the past for logging, and many public lands require secondary processing and added value before logs can be sold.


I was talking about crawfish.

As far as pulp goes we are the ones supplying it. It is a renewable resource that has been managed extremely well. All the Chinese are doing is converting the pulp into paper. Then shipping it back.






Back to top
  Replies (0)


Back to top