Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism - Page 14 - TigerDroppings.com

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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
6861 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

quote:
But its alright to teach evolution?


yes, because it's based on scientific theory

creationism is not



Let's compare...

Evolution... written by Brother Charles.
Creation... written by Brother Moses

Then science does millions of studies, experiments.

Evolution says see what science has proven.
Creation says we what science has proven.

Tell me again, how they are DIFFERENT?







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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
51738 posts
 Online 

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

Evolution says see what science has proven.
Creation says we what science has proven.

Tell me again, how they are DIFFERENT?
CreationISM in its most commonly accepted flatearth sense is very different. Intelligent design is nonexclusive of evolution. But it is exclusive of atheism.






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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
9851 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


I am about to drop some knowledge on you fool. Old testament style

Genesis 1:20-27

quote:

And God said: 'Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let fowl fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.' 21 And God created the great sea-monsters, and every living creature that creepeth, wherewith the waters swarmed, after its kind, and every winged fowl after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.' 23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. {P}

24 And God said: 'Let the earth bring forth the living creature after its kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after its kind.' And it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth after its kind, and the cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 26 And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.' 27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.


Order Fish, birds, Cattle Man and Woman

Genesis 2: 7-22

quote:

7 Then the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward, in Eden; and there He put the man whom He had formed. 9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became four heads. 11 The name of the first is Pishon; that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; 12 and the gold of that land is good; there is bdellium and the onyx stone. 13 And the name of the second river is Gihon; the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Cush. 14 And the name of the third river is Tigris; that is it which goeth toward the east of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying: 'Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.' 18 And the LORD God said: 'It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him.' 19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto the man to see what he would call them; and whatsoever the man would call every living creature, that was to be the name thereof. 20 And the man gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found a help meet for him. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the place with flesh instead thereof. 22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from the man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man.


Order: Man than Every beast and fowl, Woman (from rib).

Thats two different stories.






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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
9851 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

Let's compare...

Evolution... written by Brother Charles.
Creation... written by Brother Moses

Then science does millions of studies, experiments.

Evolution says see what science has proven.
Creation says we what science has proven.

Tell me again, how they are DIFFERENT?



There is no science supporting real creationism. Your championing something that i don't really think even you support. Teaching our children in school that G-d made the earth in 7 days, and all the animals all at once, and Adam was buddies with dinosaurs.

Science isn't support creationism. people who aren't doing science and just throwing up their hands and no longer are looking for natural answers are supporting it.






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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
6861 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

I am about to drop some knowledge on you fool. Old testament style


LOL!!! Let's roll!


....... after reading, it's clear you failed to read what I stated. This is seriously NOT an argument. You are wrong!

Let's break this down again...

1- You are taking this in chronological order. IT IS NOT. No amount of you wanting to claim this will EVER.. EVER make it true. Period!

2- Gen 2 begins a more in depth look at certain parts of the creation. It does so to start the linage of Jesus. It is not a chronological order!

I assume your issue is with Gen 2: 19... It's not a chronological order. It's going back to describe how things came to that.

I do not see how you can not understand that. It's not hard. He is going back and telling you how woman came to be. In order to tell you that, he states that God had created the animals.... that they all had mates and while Adam was naming them, God felt that Adam needed what the animals had.. a help mate. It's easier if you actually include verse 18. It begins that part of creation..

"Remember I told you God created animals, then man? Well, when Adam was in the garden naming those, God Noticed he needed a help mate. It was then God caused a sleep... made a woman"

Not hard at all!









This post was edited on 12/26 at 7:53 pm


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Fun Bunch
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
24843 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

Then science does millions of studies, experiments. Evolution says see what science has proven. Creation says we what science has proven. Tell me again, how they are DIFFERENT?


Wow.

I'm done. Have fun.






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darkhorse
Member since Aug 2012
6861 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

quote:
Then science does millions of studies, experiments. Evolution says see what science has proven. Creation says we what science has proven. Tell me again, how they are DIFFERENT?


Wow.

I'm done. Have fun.



YEP!! Good thing!






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Burt Reynolds
Florida State Fan
L.A.
Member since Jul 2008
17289 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


Christianity prevails over all!!!

Darkhorse. There will be a special spot in heaven for strong followers like yourself. Keep up the good work :heavenbound:... Sometimes I feel like the rapture couldn't come sooner. Hurry up Jesus! I'm ready to come home






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Pectus
New Orleans Saints Fan
Internet
Member since Apr 2010
45691 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


You asked for it, here you go...Creation as how it doesn't apply to science. (Using NIV, biblical scholars have probably changed to the text to be more vague to work in any situation though.

Note: In a couple of earlier posts you said that the Creation melds with science. The only way it does is you are lucky things are clumped and described in a similar sort of order to Earth's early history...

But only on the periphery. I will show you how these events do not match science, all it will take is a little bit of extra knowledge about what you already know.

quote:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.



The deep and the waters here signify the void that was before the Earth "was". I get it.

Except the Earth is here because of the galaxy, and the galaxy is here because of the Big Bang.

quote:

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.


Day and night are only possible because of the Sun. The Earth and the Sun are roughly the same age and were both made from condensation of matter (gas and solidus for the Sun and Earth, respectively)

quote:

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.


The only way there could be the sky is if there were atmosphere, and the only way there would be atmosphere is from the degassing of lava. It is still debated just how molten Earth was prior to cooling down, but you bet there were some active lava flows and deeper magma bodies that put much gas into the atmosphere. This part creation science.

quote:


9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.


Given enough magma and lava degassing lead to the accumulation of water vapors. There's also an argument for some water coming from millions of years of comets impacting the Earth and melting. The formation of seas would cool the magma beneath and around them, making the land firm. This part matches and is in correct sequence with creation science.

quote:

11 Then God said, “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.


The only way for the magma and lava degassing to be bearable by living organisms is if the toxic components, e.g. carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and hydrogen sulfide are to be reworked and replaced by molecules that life is tolerant of. Trees were not the first plant. What if the author meant photoautotroph? Well that would mean some algae that create lots of oxygen to the point where the atmosphere is bearable. But what about the sea? Lava vents in the sea as well. These bacteria/algae are the heros of making Earth bearable. They made the water and much much later atmosphere bearable for more complicated life forms to evolve and radiate.

quote:

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.


Our solar system was spawned at roughly the same time, i.e. the Sun and its surrounding planets are all about the same age. The same can't be said for surrounding stars and galaxies, which all have varying ages. Other stars and galaxies had to exist before there was any tree. The Moon had to exist before there was any tree as well, and probably before any thick atmosphere.(The Moon is a piece of the Earth that was knocked loose from the planet due to a large impact; it remains trapped in Earth's gravitational field.)

One huge point: You'd think that God would realize that the Sun is responsible for the light during the day as well as the light during the night? Like moonlight is just sunlight reflecting off the surface of the Moon.

quote:

20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.” 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.


The widely-agreed upon flow of life and adaptations from earliest chordates (creatures with a backbone) to mammals is as follows:

Annotation: Group Subgroup Adaptation

Notochord --> Chordates --> fish --> fins --> bones --> lobe-finned fishes --> legs --> tetrapods -->
lungs --> skin --> amphibians --> scales --> amniotic egg --> reptiles (from which came birds with feathers) --> hair --> marsupials --> placentae --> mammals

quote:

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”


Of course we wouldn't be having this discussion if not for this verse right here.

I'm not going to touch upon it, because there's so much literature on the relation of man to early hominids, all of which originated out of Africa, very close to where civilization first began. That's anthropology and archaeology: not my realm of study.



This post was edited on 12/26 at 8:33 pm


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Pectus
New Orleans Saints Fan
Internet
Member since Apr 2010
45691 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


Just for kicks:
Older version: KJV

quote:

6: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7: And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.



So if you're looking for a God that has been pretty silent over the last millenia, then you don't have to look any farther because land and seas are always changing due to plate tectonics. God is doing this!

quote:


14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19: And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.



You can argue in the NIV that the light is just that there are two different settings of light dividing day and night, but this is pretty much saying there is a moon. Refer to my comment about the Moon.





Closing remarks:


There are only 2 verses that match what science says in the form of order of events, but that doesn't mean that it is right on par with science. There are some necessary details there that are lacking.

Darkhorse, you lost me when in one of your shorter posts you said Kelvin made a LAW (implying not just theory). It was there that I realized I was not reading comments from a learned person. So I want you to know that while this post was addressed to you, it was meant for all the readers who were getting confused by you.

I would like to end by telling a personal story of mine:


I went to a wandering lecturer that was a Creation Scientist who said he could argue for Creationism so well that he'd pay any professor from the nearby university to debate him on topics. Of course not one took him up on his offer. Anyway, I went, he gave his talk, and at the end I went up to him and asked, "How is there faunal succession where you go from invertebrates to fishes to reptiles and then to mammals in the fossil record if the flood was this instantaneous event?" He answered, "We actually did an experiment here where we put dead fish, bugs, reptiles, and mammals all in an aquarium and mixed it all up. When the water calmed down the animals settled in the same order as in the 'fossil record'."

I was young at the time and struggling with the whole science and God thing. It was then that I realized that something was amiss.



This post was edited on 12/26 at 8:31 pm


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catholictigerfan
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Member since Oct 2009
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re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


btw creationism for me is philosophical and not scientific. I believe God created the universe and set it in a way that we could come into existence through it.

young earth creationist are people who take the bible to literalistic. Ignoring what biblical scholars have said about it and even sometimes what common sense says about it. Please don't ignore the fact that the bible is written by human beings who had their own intentions behind writing what they wrote. The author(s) of Genesis didn't write a story as a strict retelling of the creation of the earth.






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cigsmcgee
Arkansas Fan
LR
Member since May 2012
2815 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

Evolution... written by Brother Charles.


theorized by observed evidence.

quote:

Creation... written by Brother Moses


debatable.






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REG861
Vanderbilt Fan
New Orleans
Member since Oct 2011
15970 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

darkhorse



wow. I pity you.






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McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
12319 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

darkhorse


don't waste your time talking this stuff here. a) this is going to get whacked and b) dogmatists seldom know they're dogmatic--nature of the beast.






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Fun Bunch
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
24843 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

dogmatists seldom know they're dogmatic--nature of the beast.








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REG861
Vanderbilt Fan
New Orleans
Member since Oct 2011
15970 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

don't waste your time talking this stuff here. a) this is going to get whacked and b) dogmatists seldom know they're dogmatic--nature of the beast.


I second the . Seriously, such a puerile post deserves no other response






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Archie Bengal Bunker
Florida State Fan
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Member since Jun 2008
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re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


Wouldn't creationism just be taught in a day? 13 weeks of the theory of evolution, and then one day at the end of the semester, "oh, and there is a possibility which has neither been proven nor dis-proven that a supreme being created everything in a week." The end.

I mean, what exactly does a creationism curriculum entail?


I don't like it in schools because if you give the Biblical account, you should have to give every other possible account, including the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You can't disprove that a Flying Spaghetti Monster created the earth in 7 seconds. Of course, He created carbs in the first second.




Unrelated, why did God need Adam's rib to make Eve? Makes light, earth, birds, beasts, and man from scratch (in 6 days)... needs Adam's rib to make one more thing.



This post was edited on 12/27 at 2:17 pm


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Fun Bunch
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re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism










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GeauxTigerTM
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Member since Sep 2006
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re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

I mean, what exactly does a creationism curriculum entail?


I asked this VERY early on of darkhorse and he refused to play. If there is a contingent out there that wants creationism taught in place of evolution, than it behooves them to do something more than try and tear down evolution. They need to make a positive case for their account.

Instead what you get is a whole lot of criticism of evolution (most of it completely absurd and bordering on professional level ignorance) coupled with an assumption that you can simply drop the judo-christian creation account in the void. You can't.

Darkhorse is welcome to link any and all peer reviewed scientific papers which point to special creation being a better answer for what we see in the natural world. He can try and make a case for special creation without mentioning evolution...you know, the way every other evolutionary scientist does without ever feeling the need to mention creationism when he's presenting evidence for his cause. He's made an assertion...and spent the rest of the time trying to get you guys to defend the theory of evolution. Don't play.






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REG861
Vanderbilt Fan
New Orleans
Member since Oct 2011
15970 posts

re: Orleans Parish School Board votes to ban creationism


quote:

quote:I mean, what exactly does a creationism curriculum entail? I asked this VERY early on of darkhorse and he refused to play. If there is a contingent out there that wants creationism taught in place of evolution, than it behooves them to do something more than try and tear down evolution. They need to make a positive case for their account. Instead what you get is a whole lot of criticism of evolution (most of it completely absurd and bordering on professional level ignorance) coupled with an assumption that you can simply drop the judo-christian creation account in the void. You can't. Darkhorse is welcome to link any and all peer reviewed scientific papers which point to special creation being a better answer for what we see in the natural world. He can try and make a case for special creation without mentioning evolution...you know, the way every other evolutionary scientist does without ever feeling the need to mention creationism when he's presenting evidence for his cause. He's made an assertion...and spent the rest of the time trying to get you guys to defend the theory of evolution. Don't play.


Perfectly put.






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