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Message
re: The CP3 trade -- 1 Year Anniversary
Posted on 12/10/12 at 8:29 am to eyeran
Posted on 12/10/12 at 8:29 am to eyeran
quote:
I was talking about his skillset, not his numbers. He's no better of a basketball player now than he was when he was drafted.
This is dumber than you first post.
Is Paul supposed to teach Griffin new skills?
In 2+ seasons Griffin is 20 and 10 with excellent efficiency. He is a consensus top 5 pf. How much better can he get?
You haven't posted anything that backs up either of your bogus claims. Like most people on Griffin, you're talking out of your arse.
2
Posted on 12/10/12 at 9:06 am to corndeaux
holy shite this thread isn't about blake. it's about remembering the CP3 week. go bitch about blake in some other thread.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 9:21 am to quail man
Edit: Second thought, you are right Mr. Man.
Let me try this posting on topic thing out.
When I heard about the Paul to LA trade I was like
:insertdisappointedmeme:
I was glad Stern vetoed that shite.
Later that week when I found out they got Gordon and an unprotected first I was like
:insertfapmeme:
Did I do it right?
Let me try this posting on topic thing out.
When I heard about the Paul to LA trade I was like
:insertdisappointedmeme:
I was glad Stern vetoed that shite.
Later that week when I found out they got Gordon and an unprotected first I was like
:insertfapmeme:
Did I do it right?
This post was edited on 12/10/12 at 9:36 am
Posted on 12/10/12 at 9:34 am to corndeaux
well then i'll chime in.
blake griffin is an AWFUL basketball player. probably not even top 40-50 in the league in terms of pure basketball skills (dribbling, passing, shooting, etc...the fundamentals).
but he is an outstanding, world class athlete. until he develops a post game or a more consistent jumper, his game will quickly become obsolete as he ages. or his body breaks down from all the pounding he has to take to get close enough to the basket to score.
blake griffin is an AWFUL basketball player. probably not even top 40-50 in the league in terms of pure basketball skills (dribbling, passing, shooting, etc...the fundamentals).
but he is an outstanding, world class athlete. until he develops a post game or a more consistent jumper, his game will quickly become obsolete as he ages. or his body breaks down from all the pounding he has to take to get close enough to the basket to score.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 9:40 am to quail man
quote:
probably not even top 40-50 in the league in terms of pure basketball skills (dribbling, passing, shooting,
So you're telling me a pf is not one of the 40 or 50 best dribblers, passers or shooters in the league?
As no post game, read this and tell me what you think.
LINK
Posted on 12/10/12 at 9:46 am to corndeaux
i said etc...meaning that it includes post game, among other things. so hurray for Blake
he's a mediocre post player...among guards.
eta: when i think of the great power forwards in the league, i think of guys like Duncan and Dirk, guys who have a consistent jumper and well above average passing skills. and a few post moves to boot. i don't think of blake griffin. he's an amazing athlete, and i'm not taking away from what he's done. but IMO, he will be ineffective by 30 if he keeps it up
quote:
62nd percentile among all NBA players.
he's a mediocre post player...among guards.
eta: when i think of the great power forwards in the league, i think of guys like Duncan and Dirk, guys who have a consistent jumper and well above average passing skills. and a few post moves to boot. i don't think of blake griffin. he's an amazing athlete, and i'm not taking away from what he's done. but IMO, he will be ineffective by 30 if he keeps it up
This post was edited on 12/10/12 at 9:48 am
Posted on 12/10/12 at 9:51 am to quail man
It's a shame that we got no value out of Kaman, but I still greatly prefer this over the Lakers-Rockets rumor, though. All in all, the trade hinges on Gordon.
I refuse to treat Davis as a direct product of this trade, but we likely don't get him if we take the LAL-HOR deal, aka Instant Mediocrity.
I refuse to treat Davis as a direct product of this trade, but we likely don't get him if we take the LAL-HOR deal, aka Instant Mediocrity.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 9:54 am to Jester
quote:
It's a shame that we got no value out of Kaman
i think he was always going to be filler. dell wanted to trade him a quarter of the way through the season, didn't he? which was why he sat out for so long. but he didn't get anything worth trading for. it does suck that the hornets lost out on him, though. could have used him this season. he's having a pretty decent year, though he's struggled recently.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 9:55 am to Jester
quote:
It's a shame that we got no value out of Kaman
We got no value out of Peja either. Expiring contracts aint what they used to be. You do have to wonder why Demps didn't just take a 2nd from Indy though, especially since rumors at the time were bridges had been burned and there was zero chance of Kaman coming back. Were they not even offering a 2nd?
Posted on 12/10/12 at 9:57 am to Jester
And Blake Griffin is extremely one-dimensional offensively. His game is way too dependent on jumping over people. There are two major problems created by that reliance:
1. Leaping typically requires space. So, he is VERY dependent on being set up cutting to the basket. With a hand on him in the post, he isn't given that space to leap. Also, he doesn't break down bigger defenders off the dribble, so he can't set up his own leaping. He needs a more consistent jumper to make defenders come out to him.
2. He isn't getting any younger or more athletic. His hops will begin to diminish leaving him with little dependable offense (alley-oops are not dependable offense).
1. Leaping typically requires space. So, he is VERY dependent on being set up cutting to the basket. With a hand on him in the post, he isn't given that space to leap. Also, he doesn't break down bigger defenders off the dribble, so he can't set up his own leaping. He needs a more consistent jumper to make defenders come out to him.
2. He isn't getting any younger or more athletic. His hops will begin to diminish leaving him with little dependable offense (alley-oops are not dependable offense).
Posted on 12/10/12 at 9:59 am to quail man
Yes. His post game is still raw. And his jumper is not there. But he's put up All NBA numbers his first 2 years in the league. He has a post game that is improving. He's 23.
Comparing him as a 2nd year player to the best pf of all time and the greatest euro of all time is unfair. Very few match up to those guys. Its like comparing 20 year old LBJ to Jordan and saying he's a bum.
What is the difference between Blake and young Karl Malone? Both physical freaks that beat guys up down low, relying on natural gifts rather than skill. Karl developed a deadly jumper and stayed in tremendous shape. Not saying this will happen to Griffin, but it's a bit rash to say he has no basketball talent and is regressing as a player.
Most people don't like Griffin, which is fine. Don't trash his game because he is a dbag. Anyone that puts up those numbers during his first two years is more than just an athlete.
Comparing him as a 2nd year player to the best pf of all time and the greatest euro of all time is unfair. Very few match up to those guys. Its like comparing 20 year old LBJ to Jordan and saying he's a bum.
What is the difference between Blake and young Karl Malone? Both physical freaks that beat guys up down low, relying on natural gifts rather than skill. Karl developed a deadly jumper and stayed in tremendous shape. Not saying this will happen to Griffin, but it's a bit rash to say he has no basketball talent and is regressing as a player.
Most people don't like Griffin, which is fine. Don't trash his game because he is a dbag. Anyone that puts up those numbers during his first two years is more than just an athlete.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 10:00 am to quail man
quote:
it does suck that the hornets lost out on him, though. could have used him this season. he's having a pretty decent year, though he's struggled recently.
I didn't want him back this year. He is terribly inefficient on the offensive end and not exactly stellar on defense. I just don't think there was a place for him on this team. That said, there is always a market for a serviceable big. I just don't think he would be a net positive for this rebuilding franchise.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 10:03 am to corndeaux
quote:
but it's a bit rash to say he has no basketball talent and is regressing as a player.
i never said either of those things
quote:
Anyone that puts up those numbers during his first two years is more than just an athlete.
i admitted that i wasn't taking anything away from what he's done. and i said not top 40-50. meaning i would place him in the 55 range in terms of pure basketball skills. that's still NBA starting caliber, especially for a PF. so again, in no way did I say he was only an athlete. i did imply that his athletic ability was the main reason he is putting up his #s, though
Posted on 12/10/12 at 10:04 am to Jester
quote:
I just don't think he would be a net positive for this rebuilding franchise.
not at all. he wasn't worth what the Mavs paid for him, IMO. but they needed a big. and decent bigs in this day and age get paid. just look at Lopez
Posted on 12/10/12 at 10:04 am to TigerinATL
quote:
You do have to wonder why Demps didn't just take a 2nd from Indy though, especially since rumors at the time were bridges had been burned and there was zero chance of Kaman coming back. Were they not even offering a 2nd?
They probably offered a deal that included a second. Given how he wasn't used, I'm sure Dell would have accepted any trade that didn't bring back trash in return. If he had to take back any contracts with the 2nd, it was probably better to let him expire and reset the books given that we are rebuilding. Seconds aren't valuable enough to take on salary.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 10:10 am to quail man
quote:
i never said either of those things
I know. That's how this whole thing got on Griffin which led to you jumping in.
Despite his flaws, I still think he is a top tier pf with the potential to be so for a long time.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 11:05 am to corndeaux
I'm still mad about the Paul trade. They should have never traded him away. They should have resigned West, Landry, A. Davis, Green and used the mid level on any scorer they could have got. We would have been in the playoffs last year (around the spot the Clips were) and could have made a half decent run. I will never get stripping down a playoff team to nothing.
This year we could have started the rebuild. But who's to say Paul isn't convinced to stay with new ownership. Worst case you sign and trade him to NY or wherever and get a few pieces, then the team sucks. But it sucks now anyway.
I like Davis and he might have a very bright future, but getting him wasn't worth flushing a full season down the drain. Now it looks like it may be two seasons.
This year we could have started the rebuild. But who's to say Paul isn't convinced to stay with new ownership. Worst case you sign and trade him to NY or wherever and get a few pieces, then the team sucks. But it sucks now anyway.
I like Davis and he might have a very bright future, but getting him wasn't worth flushing a full season down the drain. Now it looks like it may be two seasons.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 11:18 am to brmark70816
quote:
I'm still mad about the Paul trade. They should have never traded him away.
Yeah, nothing is WAY better than something
quote:
They should have resigned West
Debatable. He has been upgraded
quote:
Landry
No, very limited player.
quote:
A. Davis
You smoking dat good sheet
quote:
Green
quote:
used the mid level on any scorer they could have got
Hello, Jannero Pargo.
quote:
We would have been in the playoffs last year
No, we would have fought for the 8th seed
quote:
(around the spot the Clips were)
quote:
could have made a half decent run
Nah, that team was very flawed.
quote:
I will never get stripping down a playoff team to nothing.
We didn't. Gordon's injury changed everything
quote:
This year we could have started the rebuild.
Your big plan puts the rebuild at least 2 seasons behind where we are now, probably worse.
quote:
But who's to say Paul isn't convinced to stay with new ownership.
Paul wanted to win now. New ownership doesn't provide instant wins.
quote:
Worst case you sign and trade him to NY or wherever and get a few pieces, then the team sucks
You clearly weren't paying attention. NY couldn't make it work without sending A'mare back, which was a non-starter for either side.
quote:
But it sucks now anyway.
It sucks for you.
quote:
I like Davis and he might have a very bright future, but getting him wasn't worth flushing a full season down the drain. Now it looks like it may be two seasons.
The trade was not designed around Anthony Davis. He is a nice gift from it.
Posted on 12/10/12 at 11:27 am to brmark70816
I don't even know where to begin with this
Rebuild with
* Minimal return on CP3
* With a worse pick in a weaker draft
* In the first full year with Benson as owner right before he tries to rebrand the team
OR
* More assets for CP3
* The season is shortened by the lockout
* Ownership is in a transition period
* The draft is deep on star power
With what you are suggesting, the team would look something like
Vasquez/Kendal Marshall
Jack/Beli
Ariza/2012 2nd rounder not as good as Darius Miller
DWest/Landry
Okafor/Smith
Chris Paul. The team we will have next year will be way more attracted to UFA CP3 than the hypothetical team Demps could have built with one more year but no added assets or flexibility. The only way CP3 could get the help he needed was if he traded himself away and came back. Staying was never an option since contending was a priority.
So the guy that most experts are calling a once in a generation player wasn't worth a rebuild? I wonder if San Antonio would trade Duncan to have been a playoff team in 96-97. Chad Ford said most GMs would have taken Davis over pretty much every recent top pick besides Durant and Lebron.
quote:
this year we could have started the rebuild.
Rebuild with
* Minimal return on CP3
* With a worse pick in a weaker draft
* In the first full year with Benson as owner right before he tries to rebrand the team
OR
* More assets for CP3
* The season is shortened by the lockout
* Ownership is in a transition period
* The draft is deep on star power
With what you are suggesting, the team would look something like
Vasquez/Kendal Marshall
Jack/Beli
Ariza/2012 2nd rounder not as good as Darius Miller
DWest/Landry
Okafor/Smith
quote:
who's to say Paul isn't convinced to stay with new ownership.
Chris Paul. The team we will have next year will be way more attracted to UFA CP3 than the hypothetical team Demps could have built with one more year but no added assets or flexibility. The only way CP3 could get the help he needed was if he traded himself away and came back. Staying was never an option since contending was a priority.
quote:
I like Davis and he might have a very bright future, but getting him wasn't worth flushing a full season down the drain.
So the guy that most experts are calling a once in a generation player wasn't worth a rebuild? I wonder if San Antonio would trade Duncan to have been a playoff team in 96-97. Chad Ford said most GMs would have taken Davis over pretty much every recent top pick besides Durant and Lebron.
This post was edited on 12/10/12 at 11:32 am
Posted on 12/10/12 at 1:34 pm to corndeaux
quote:
This is dumber than you first post.
Is Paul supposed to teach Griffin new skills?
In 2+ seasons Griffin is 20 and 10 with excellent efficiency. He is a consensus top 5 pf. How much better can he get?
You haven't posted anything that backs up either of your bogus claims. Like most people on Griffin, you're talking out of your arse.
My post was not a shot at CP. Seems you think I was blaming Chris Paul for Griffin not improving, I wasn't.
I also said nothing about where Griffin is ranked among PFs. Yes he's top 5.
ALL I said was that he's hasn't improved his skillset since he's been in the league. Its the truth, he hasn't. The rest was discussed after I logged out...
This post was edited on 12/10/12 at 1:53 pm
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