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re: After the 2nd viewing of each, TDKR >>>>>> Avengers
Posted on 12/5/12 at 9:38 am to RollTide1987
Posted on 12/5/12 at 9:38 am to RollTide1987
And even if she was the head of The League of Shadows, how does that reduce Bane from the level of "main antagonist"? Was Batman fighting Talia or was he fighting Bane for most of the film?
0
Posted on 12/5/12 at 9:39 am to RollTide1987
Bane was the leader of the militarized group but he was working towards Talia's purpose which was to fulfill Ra's al Ghul's destiny.
My main issue was not that she was the ultimate antagonist in the movie and wasn't seen that way until the very end. In a way TDK was written the same way with The Joker and Dent. My issue was the disgraceful ending to Bane. You finally get to see the compassion he has for Talia and what drives him; and he gets blasted by Selina. That's it, all the work Batman did to prepare for battle with him is taken away so quickly.
My main issue was not that she was the ultimate antagonist in the movie and wasn't seen that way until the very end. In a way TDK was written the same way with The Joker and Dent. My issue was the disgraceful ending to Bane. You finally get to see the compassion he has for Talia and what drives him; and he gets blasted by Selina. That's it, all the work Batman did to prepare for battle with him is taken away so quickly.
Posted on 12/5/12 at 9:43 am to kballa6
quote:
My issue was the disgraceful ending to Bane. You finally get to see the compassion he has for Talia and what drives him; and he gets blasted by Selina. That's it, all the work Batman did to prepare for battle with him is taken away so quickly.
I can see your point about the way Bane was killed. It was kind of sudden and seemed to be done just to move the story along to its ultimate conclusion. I'm not saying the movie was perfect. However, I don't think Bruce was working to defeat Bane so much as he was working to save Gotham. The imminent, ultimate destruction of his beloved city was what drove him to work so hard in the Pit to find the strength to escape and get back to Gotham. Bane was simply an obstacle in the way of that goal. A *powerful* obstacle, but an obstacle nonetheless.
Posted on 12/5/12 at 9:58 am to RollTide1987
quote:She is Talia Al'Ghul.
Where did she say she was?
Bane was her 2nd in command.
They make it very clear who is calling the shots after her reveal. Bane defers to her. They even explain that he has always been a bodyguard for her. . .even in the pit.
Posted on 12/5/12 at 10:02 am to Roaad
I thought it was made extremely clear that Talia is the main antagonists and that she is the leader of the League of Shadows.
Posted on 12/5/12 at 10:04 am to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
After the 2nd viewing of each, TDKR >>>>>> Avengers
WHY?!?! WHY DOES IT HAVE TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER???? CANT WE JUST LIKE THEM BOTH AS VERY DIFFERENT COMPLETELY UNRELATED MOVIES??????
Posted on 12/5/12 at 10:20 am to Roaad
quote:
She is Talia Al'Ghul.
So what? She was never meant to succeed her father in the comics. In fact, in one storyline, BANE was chosen as the heir to Ra's Al Ghul's organization.
quote:
Bane defers to her.
Does he? Because it seems to me that he specifically ignored Talia's instructions not to kill Batman. Had it not been for Catwoman, Bane would have ended Batman's life with a shotgun blast to the face.
This post was edited on 12/5/12 at 10:22 am
Posted on 12/5/12 at 10:23 am to Tactical1
quote:
I thought it was made extremely clear that Talia is the main antagonists and that she is the leader of the League of Shadows.
Even if she was the leader of the League of Shadows it doesn't make her the main antagonist.
Posted on 12/5/12 at 12:15 pm to RollTide1987
I agree that his main objective was to save Gotham which leads me to my second biggest complaint. The ending.
Bruce Wayne is no more, he died with his parents and the fact that he would give up his cowl is absurd. Batman can't live in paradise with Selina forever unless he becomes the Dark Knight of paradise.
I loved the movie and even with minor plot holes I still prefer watching it over Avengers but to compare the two movies is hard because they are very different.
The more I watch it and watch the extras I see where Nolan's overall direction and things make a lot more sense. He stuck to the basics in which he built BB. There are so many similarities across all three that if you have an issue with one you probably will have it with all three.
Bruce Wayne is no more, he died with his parents and the fact that he would give up his cowl is absurd. Batman can't live in paradise with Selina forever unless he becomes the Dark Knight of paradise.
I loved the movie and even with minor plot holes I still prefer watching it over Avengers but to compare the two movies is hard because they are very different.
The more I watch it and watch the extras I see where Nolan's overall direction and things make a lot more sense. He stuck to the basics in which he built BB. There are so many similarities across all three that if you have an issue with one you probably will have it with all three.
Posted on 12/5/12 at 12:20 pm to RollTide1987
In this story she was. She may not have been the main physical adversary of Batman but she was the brains behind all of it. She was the main person standing in the way of Batman saving Gotham.
Bane was cast out from the LoS and after Ra's died Talia found him and set this plan in motion. (Last part of that was inferred)
Bane was cast out from the LoS and after Ra's died Talia found him and set this plan in motion. (Last part of that was inferred)
Posted on 12/5/12 at 12:20 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Well I am not going to compare
but I saw TDKR last night on blue-ray
frankly I was disappointed
Bane didn't do it for me. Did not bring terror like the Joker, for whatever reason and I don't think it was Hardy
while it was ok, it was a letdown after all the hype
I think I was expecting too much. It was not better than returns and maybe not begins either
JMHO
but I saw TDKR last night on blue-ray
frankly I was disappointed
Bane didn't do it for me. Did not bring terror like the Joker, for whatever reason and I don't think it was Hardy
while it was ok, it was a letdown after all the hype
I think I was expecting too much. It was not better than returns and maybe not begins either
JMHO
Posted on 12/5/12 at 12:35 pm to kballa6
quote:
She may not have been the main physical adversary of Batman but she was the brains behind all of it.
Was she? Where is this inferred? All we know is that she is Ra's al Ghul's daughter, she is a high-ranking member of the League of Shadows, and that she, like Bane, is in Gotham to fulfill Ra's al Ghul's destiny. The movie does imply that she is the head of the League of Shadows but it never implies that she is the brains behind the whole operation. Bane was the movie's main antagonist. Plain and simple.
Posted on 12/5/12 at 1:30 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Bane was the movie's main antagonist.
Except he wasn't
Posted on 12/5/12 at 1:39 pm to Tactical1
quote:
Except he wasn't
Except he was. Who was Rommel's main antagonist on D-Day: Eisenhower or Roosevelt? Just because Talia was the leader of the League of Shadows doesn't mean she was the movie's main antagonist.
Bane featured prominently throughout the entire movie. The movie built him up to be the ultimate match to Batman. He broke Batman in a fight that he dominated completely. He led the army of the League of Shadows in their hostile takeover of Gotham. He was marketed as the movie's main villain and Tom Hardy's name comes before Marion Cotillard's in the credits.
This post was edited on 12/5/12 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 12/5/12 at 2:15 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
RollTide1987
you are over defending your stance here.
Bane was clearly following orders the entire time, Taila set this up from the start-she was the "slow knife". Bane was marketed more because frankly it would give away the plot if Taila was...remember Ken Wantanabe was marketed as Ra's in BB. Would you say he was the main antagonist in BB? or Liam Neeson's character-who was Bruce mentor in the first act?
Posted on 12/5/12 at 2:16 pm to Tactical1
quote:
Except he wasn't
this. The weakest death of the year.
Posted on 12/5/12 at 2:16 pm to RonBurgundy
quote:
Bane was clearly following orders the entire time, Taila set this up from the start-she was the "slow knife"
This. It's quite obvious.
Posted on 12/5/12 at 2:25 pm to RonBurgundy
Taila had infiltrated Wayne Enterprises for the past several years and Bane ran the LOS during that time. I think its pretty clear that Bane ran the operational details. The big picture of destorying Gotham was Taila's idea. Bane planned and executed evertything outside of Wayne Enterprises.
Posted on 12/5/12 at 2:29 pm to CP3LSU25
Who cares if Bane was really second in command. He was clearly the main antagonist in the movie.
That's like saying Emperor Palpatine was the main antagonist in Star Wars.
That's like saying Emperor Palpatine was the main antagonist in Star Wars.
Posted on 12/5/12 at 2:31 pm to EarthwormJim
quote:
That's like saying Emperor Palpatine was the main antagonist in Star Wars.
He was.
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