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Tiger Authority 
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2007
29230 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 9:41 pm to trackfan)
quote:
All I did was explain why involvement in terror doesn't preclude organizations from making peace, which seems to be a concept you refuse to accept.
No, I simply stated that I don't think they should be recognized and I don't think recognizing them will prompt them to forgo terror in favor of peace.
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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
10872 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 9:46 pm to Tiger Authority)
quote:
No, I simply stated that I don't think they should be recognized and I don't think recognizing them will prompt them to forgo terror in favor of peace.
If you're saying that you don't believe Hamas has the capacity to be pragmatic, I respectfully disagree. There's no doubt that there are some rejectionists amongst the Hamas rank and file, but they aren't the ones calling the shots.
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Tiger Authority
LSU Fan
Member since Jul 2007
29230 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 9:48 pm to trackfan)
Maybe you're right. I'm not optimistic that is the case however.
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mytigger
LSU Fan
19th hole
Member since Jan 2008
11147 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 9:54 pm to trackfan)
quote:
Former Israeli General Says
I suppose we're not the only country with politicized generals who've lost their way.
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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
12691 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:22 pm to trackfan)
What sort of deal do you make with people who deny your right to exist? If Israel makes an agreement with Hamas that covers Gaza, does that mean there will be two separate and distinct Palestinian countries? How will the PLA and Palestinians of the West Bank react? Won't they torpedo any deal as it would weaken their position in any negotiations with Israel? How is Egypt gpoing to guartantee no weapons into Gaza in the future when they can't now?
I would love for the Israelis and Palestinians to come to an agreement that would end hostilities. I'm just not sure the timing is right for either side. I'm afraid it is going to take some sort of existential crisis for the Palestinians to get them to the bargaining table while the Israelis won't bother unless they go from a position of strength. Thus it may take an Israeli commitment to crushing Hamas, with significant casualties for both sides, to get any movement in any paece talks.
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Mike da Tigah
Ft. New Richmond
Member since Feb 2005
36777 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:32 pm to trackfan)
Israel pulls out of Gaza and now Hamas wants to use it as a platform to launch rockets.
frick Them.
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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
10872 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:36 pm to Poodlebrain)
I think what the general is suggesting is that Israel sign a deal with the folks in Gaza and leave the West Bank alone, since Israel doesn't have any settlers in Gaza and Hamas are the folks making war on them. And remember that the reason why Hamas broke the 16-month ceasefire in 2006 was because Israel refused to lift the bloackade that was imposed on them after they won the elections. And remember that there's no Israeli government that will continually defy an American President when he draws a line in the sand, so the ball is in Obama's court as long as he's willing to spend enough politcal capital.
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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
10872 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:37 pm to Mike da Tigah)
quote:
Israel pulls out of Gaza and imposes a naval blockade on it and now Hamas wants to use it as a platform to launch rockets.
FIFY
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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
12691 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:43 pm to trackfan)
Hamas' refusal to recognize Israel's right to exist is something no U.S. President has the political capital to overlook. Obama would have to get Hamas to acknowledge Israel's right to exist before he could apply the kind of pressure to Israel that would get them to negotiate.
A separate peace with the Palestinians of Gaza would be a game changer. It would also likely start a Palestinian civil war.
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Geauxrilla Ballz
S'port
Member since Jan 2009
269 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 10:51 pm to Poodlebrain)
Why is it so hard to understand why the Palestinian people reject Israel's right to exist?
If China came over here and took away our rights, would we accept them as soveriegn over us?
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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
10872 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 11:02 pm to Poodlebrain)
Hamas will never accept Israel's right to exist so that one day in the future Israel might end the occupation if it feels like it. Usually these things are choreographed so that all the pledges are made simultaneously. One scenario would be that Obama would promise Morsi that Israel would end the naval blockade and recognize Hamas as the government of Gaza if Morsi would promise Obama that Hamas would recognize Israel's right to exist and enforce a permanent ceasefire that would apply not only to Hamas, but all the other Gaza militias as well.
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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
4702 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 11:10 pm to trackfan)
Just hypothetical. If ISrael comes to a peace agreement with hamas, and they form a palestinian nation, and then more terrorist attack israel, what then? What is Israel's recourse? Do you think the Palestinian government will be able to stop them?
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Geauxrilla Ballz
S'port
Member since Jan 2009
269 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 11:13 pm to SammyTiger)
The Likud Party platform clearly states that it will NEVER accept a Palestinian State alongside the border of Israel.
Not sure why this is never brought up. I have read also that 90% of Israelis agree with the current campaign on Gaza, and that Netanyahu's popularity has jumped 20%.
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SammyTiger
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
4702 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 11:18 pm to Geauxrilla Ballz)
quote:
Not sure why this is never brought up. I have read also that 90% of Israelis agree with the current campaign on Gaza, and that Netanyahu's popularity has jumped 2
Yeah rockets are being fired at them. Who the frick wouldn't be happy that they are going and trying to stop it.
The irony is the more Hamas engages in violence the more support the anti-hama Likud PArty gets.
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Mike da Tigah
Ft. New Richmond
Member since Feb 2005
36777 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/18/12 at 11:32 pm to trackfan)
quote:
imposes a naval blockade
And well they should have.
We would do no less if that threat was at our back door much less across the street. Matter of fact we have.
This post was edited on 11/18 at 11:35 pm
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joshnorris14 
Florida Fan
Florida
Member since Jan 2009
19554 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/19/12 at 1:39 am to Mike da Tigah)
It's funny when you people talk about Palestinians not believing in Israeli's right to exist as Israel rains hell down on every Palestinian man, woman, and child.
And by funny, I mean horribly saddening.
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Dark Tiger
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2006
3880 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/19/12 at 3:43 am to joshnorris14)
quote:
It's funny when you people talk about Palestinians not believing in Israeli's right to exist as Israel rains hell down on every Palestinian man, woman, and child.
Maybe those people will someday understand "don't start shit, won't be no shit"...until then, Israel can make it rain
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Poodlebrain
LSU Fan
Way Right of Rex
Member since Jan 2004
12691 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/19/12 at 4:03 am to Geauxrilla Ballz)
quote:
Why is it so hard to understand why the Palestinian people reject Israel's right to exist?
This belief pre-dates the end of WWII when all of the discussions for disposition of the former Ottoman territories began. The creation of Israel was met with an invasion. So Hamas' objection to Israel is not predicated on the occupation but its very existence. Thus any peace overture from Israel is a futile gesture, and there will have to be a fight to the finish.
Is this what you are implying?
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trackfan
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2010
10872 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/19/12 at 6:51 am to SammyTiger)
quote:
Just hypothetical. If ISrael comes to a peace agreement with hamas, and they form a palestinian nation, and then more terrorist attack israel, what then? What is Israel's recourse? Do you think the Palestinian government will be able to stop them?
I believe Hamas can stop attacks from other militias if it wants too, and Egypt can stop the smuggling if it wants too. A few years ago, Al Qaeda tried to set shop in Gaza and Hamas went in and cleaned their clocks and ran them off. Also, Hamas once tried to smuggle some anti-aircraft missiles into Gaza but Egypt confiscated them before they made their way to the smuggling tunnels because they were afraid at what Hamas might do with them. Also, note that the general suggests that Israel gets Turkey, Egypt and the Gulf states co-sign the peace deal since they all support Hamas and have the ability to twist its arm, especially Egyptian President Morsi, whose Muslim Brotherhood is the father of Hamas.
EDIT: Keep in mind that if Gaza was allowed to set up their own port, the thing that would be hanging over Hamas' head is that Israel could close it anyime it feels like it, and they can do that without firing a single shot.
This post was edited on 11/19 at 7:04 am
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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
40155 posts
| re: Former Israeli General Says Israel Should Make A Peace Deal With Hamas (Posted on 11/19/12 at 7:14 am to trackfan)
quote:
He says that Israel should ... recognize the Hamas government.
Brilliant. Sounds like a Jane Fonda - Wesley Clark hybrid.
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