Is Abortion Murder? - Page 4 - TigerDroppings.com

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coondaddy21
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2012
684 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

The reasoning is that without brain activity you aren't much more than a vegetable.



So would you not consider it murder if someone was laying in a hospital bed in a vegetative state and someone came in and shot them with a gun?






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MrTide33
USA Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
2948 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

The refusal to leave abortion alone and adopt things like the Dream Act will continue to cede elections to Democrats.


I cannot stop fighting for the rights of humans despite the apathy that it will cost us voters. Actually, 41% of voters ID themselves as pro-choice






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BeeFense5
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Kenna
Member since Jul 2010
17012 posts
 Online 

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

Republicans are losing the battle for the minds of Americans. The refusal to leave abortion alone and adopt things like the Dream Act will continue to cede elections to Democrats.


Politically you are correct. But I'm not going to stop being a vocal part of the pro life movements because of the popularity of a political stance. Abortion is way more than a political issue to me. It's not about being pro life or pro abortion. It's about a culture of death that seems to continue to sadly creep more and more into this country.






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BeeFense5
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Kenna
Member since Jul 2010
17012 posts
 Online 

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

I cannot stop fighting for the rights of humans despite the apathy that it will cost us voters.


Keep up the fight. I do it on a daily basis. It's tough but rewarding.






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MrTide33
USA Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
2948 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

Politically you are correct. But I'm not going to stop being a vocal part of the pro life movements because of the popularity of a political stance. Abortion is way more than a political issue to me. It's not about being pro life or pro abortion. It's about a culture of death that seems to continue to sadly creep more and more into this country.








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Cracking
New Orleans Saints Fan
Northshore
Member since Aug 2006
2069 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


If you can't pinpoint the exact time that life begins, we should all err on the side of caution and call it the taking of human life. If you are comfortable killing a viable human life at any stage, then you are pro-choice/pro-abortion. If you believe life is sacred (or more important than convenience) then you are pro-life.

If a scientist can pinpoint the exact moment that new life begins, then I am willing to discuss/debate. Otherwise, abortion is a political wedge used to leverage voters with poor values and play gotcha journalism using it in relation to sensitive life issues like rape.






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MrTide33
USA Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
2948 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

So would you not consider it murder if someone was laying in a hospital bed in a vegetative state and someone came in and shot them with a gun?


I believe in this matter that when the body is truly naturally shutting down, that prolonging life in a vegetative state seems iffy, to me. However, a fetus in the developmental process that will soon have brain activity is murder because it is stopping natural life instead of natural death






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MrTide33
USA Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
2948 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


Its really amazing isnt it? People err on the side of "its probably not murder so I can do it"





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MrTide33
USA Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
2948 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


Another ethical question: If life begins at a certain point of gestation, should there be rights given to developing fetuses so that they can become humans like nature intends?






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notslim99
LSU Fan
City of Bossier City
Member since Feb 2005
3638 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


Abortion is the greatest assault on liberty that has ever been implemented. There are simple, non-religious questions to ask yourself to see if abortion is wrong:

1. At conception, is the new organism living? Yes, the new cells are performing their processes autonomously and are alive.

2. Is the organism human? Yes. The new organism is classified as human.

3. Is the fetus a genetically unique human being? Yes. Since the conception is the genetic combination of two people, the genes are unique to that one fetus.

4. Is the fetus classified as the woman's body or does it have its own body? As described in point #3, the fetus is genetically unique and performing life-sustaining cell functions autonomously. Since it is genetically different than the mother, it is dishonest to describe the fetus as the woman's body.

5. Do we truly believe the drafters of the Declaration of Independence when they wrote, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?" Yes. Humans in the United States have a Constitutionally protected right to life.

The baby is living, human, genetically unique, and genetically separate from the woman's body. The baby should be given every right to live, no matter the circumstances surrounding its conception. It's a sad state that it has to be spelled out like this.



This post was edited on 11/13 at 10:38 pm


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coondaddy21
LSU Fan
Louisiana
Member since Oct 2012
684 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

If a scientist can pinpoint the exact moment that new life begins, then I am willing to discuss/debate.


IMO, this argument can't fly because even if you determine that point at which life begins, which I believe is at conception, you can't defend the interruption of that life which will eventually become a living, breathing, human being.






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Bunta
LSU Fan
Captain Lu-Natic
Member since Oct 2007
6231 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

yes

That was simple






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HailHailtoMichigan!
Michigan Fan
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
10619 posts
 Online 

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

There are simple, non-religious questions to ask yourself to see if abortion is wrong:
Yep. I am not religious at all and I am pretty passionate about my pro-life stance.

It is absolutely unfair to paint it as a religious issue.






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Wild Thang
New Orleans Saints Fan
Who Dat Nation!!!! 438
Member since Jun 2009
21944 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


What is the earliest birth that a fetus has survived? Real question.





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Cracking
New Orleans Saints Fan
Northshore
Member since Aug 2006
2069 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

You're just saying yes, but your inaction to prevent "murder" clearly contradicts your words.

If anti-abortionists really considered abortion the murder of a human being they'd do more than post on TD.....if you knew 5 yr old children were being systematically murdered in a building in your town what would you do? Post on TD or take up arms to stop it?

It's clear and understandable that people have a personal moral issue with abortion, but its also clear they do not consider it murder.


Why stop at 5 year olds? Why not go to inner-cities and patrol the projects? Why not go to Syria and stop the killing?

Your post is not an appropriate way to identify someone's conviction. I feel there are a lot of injustices in the world, but it is not my job to recklessly try and stop them all. There is a tactful way to intervene without going to jail for taking up arms against a legal abortion clinic. Protests are marginally effective because of the label of "fundamentalists" given to Christians before being disregarded.

The best source of action against abortion is honest, thoughtful debate and educating our youth to change the culture of convenience killing. Convenience killing demonstrates the devaluation of life and spins off into our culture as crime, war and helplessness/depression.






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LSUSaintsHornets
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Based Pelican
Member since Feb 2008
6425 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

So would you not consider it murder if someone was laying in a hospital bed in a vegetative state and someone came in and shot them with a gun?

Yes, but only for the reason that there are cases of spontaneous recovery from a persistent vegetative state.

In the case of the fetus before its brain develops there is not a person there, but as the brain develops consciousness develops. I just have a hard time calling something murder when it takes place before the "person" even exists in any meaningful way.

However the more I think about the issue the less pro-choice I become.






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MrTide33
USA Fan
Southeastern Central North America
Member since Nov 2012
2948 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?




Best post on here so far brother. Yes, at the moment of conception, the very first cell has its own DNA set and is a seperate entity. Yes, it relies on its mother for oxygen, nutrients, and excrement, but that does not make it less living it just makes it less independent






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BeeFense5
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Kenna
Member since Jul 2010
17012 posts
 Online 

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

Abortion is the greatest assault on liberty that has ever been implemented. There are simple, non-religious questions to ask yourself to see if abortion is wrong:
1. At conception, is the new organism living? Yes, the new cells are performing their processes autonomously and are alive.
2. Is the organism human? Yes. The new organism is classified as human.
3. Is the fetus a genetically unique human being? Yes. Since the conception is the genetic combination of two people, the genes are unique to that one fetus.
4. Is the fetus classified as the woman's body or does it have its own body? As described in point #3, the fetus is genetically unique and performing life-sustaining cell functions autonomously. Since it is genetically different than the mother, it is dishonest to describe the fetus as the woman's body.
5. Do we truly believe the drafters of the Declaration of Independence when they wrote, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness?" Yes. Humans in the United States have a Constitutionally protected right to life. The baby is living, human, genetically unique, and genetically separate from the woman's body. The baby should be given every right to live, no matter the circumstances surrounding its conception. It's a sad state that it has to be spelled out like this.








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notslim99
LSU Fan
City of Bossier City
Member since Feb 2005
3638 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

What is the earliest birth that a fetus has survived? Real question.


Doesn't matter. It is living once conceived. Think of it this way, an abortion kills the fetus in the womb. In order to kill something, it has to first be living, right?






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Zed
Alabama Fan
Member since Feb 2010
7913 posts

re: Is Abortion Murder?


quote:

What is the earliest birth that a fetus has survived? Real question.

22 weeks?






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