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Analyzing Miles and LSU
Posted on 10/9/12 at 11:20 am
Posted on 10/9/12 at 11:20 am
Miles strengths
(1) He runs a clean program, recruits well, hires well and players love him
(2) He has proven himself by winning 2 SEC titles, 2 BCS bowl games, 1 National Title and playing for another one. He is also the only coach since Paul Dietzel to have had an undefeated regular season. He wins 80% of his games in the toughest conference in the land.
Miles weaknesses
(1) His offensive philosophy is straight out of the 70s Big-10 (more run than pass).
(2) Few offensive coordinators have worked well with him because of his offensive philosophy.
Gundy/Jimbo/Crowton etc.
(3) Passing game will always be poor. QB recruitiment / QB development has not happened since Saban's players left in 2007 (Russell & Flynn). Jordan Jefferson regressed. Jarrett Lee improved but was neither trusted nor allowed to finish his senior season as a starter. Mett so far has all the talent in the world but has not lived up to the promise.
(4) OLine play has been horrible post 2007 when the last of Saban's guys left.
Bottom line on Miles
(1) Under Miles, LSU will always be competitive as he recruits too well.
(2) Under Miles, LSU will not have major off the field issues, probation etc.
(3) Under Miles, LSU will always be lead by a family man of great character and integrity, unlike the Bobby Petrinos Dana Holgorsens Mike Leachs or Butch Davis' of this work.
(4) But LSU will always be 11-2 or 10-3 or 9-4 team with a rare SEC title.
Couple of points to note
(1) Since 2007 the only time the offense has rarely clicked, is in the early half of 2011 when Lee posed the genuine passing threat, defensive teams did not pack the box that much or got burnt doing so.
(2) Since the Alabama game in 2011, when JJ regained the starters role, LSU played Western Kentucky and Ole Miss which were lopsided. But against Arkansas, we were 14 points down and 10 points down against Georgia. Guess who bailed us out with a gamechanger. TM7. That woke us up.
(3) A lot of LSU's success in 2010 came from special teams play and turnovers caused by PP7.
(4) A lot of LSU's success in 2011 came from special teams play and turnovers caused by TM7.
(5) Without PP7 in 2010 and TM7 in 2011, we do not go 11-2 and 13-1 respectively. Maybe Mo Claiborne had a lot to do as with the record as well.
+To expect improvement on offensive is being naive. This is not execution, this is not play calling this is the philosophy.
+QB, OC, players change. The result is the same. Its the philosophy stupid!
+But can we do better than Miles?
(1) He runs a clean program, recruits well, hires well and players love him
(2) He has proven himself by winning 2 SEC titles, 2 BCS bowl games, 1 National Title and playing for another one. He is also the only coach since Paul Dietzel to have had an undefeated regular season. He wins 80% of his games in the toughest conference in the land.
Miles weaknesses
(1) His offensive philosophy is straight out of the 70s Big-10 (more run than pass).
(2) Few offensive coordinators have worked well with him because of his offensive philosophy.
Gundy/Jimbo/Crowton etc.
(3) Passing game will always be poor. QB recruitiment / QB development has not happened since Saban's players left in 2007 (Russell & Flynn). Jordan Jefferson regressed. Jarrett Lee improved but was neither trusted nor allowed to finish his senior season as a starter. Mett so far has all the talent in the world but has not lived up to the promise.
(4) OLine play has been horrible post 2007 when the last of Saban's guys left.
Bottom line on Miles
(1) Under Miles, LSU will always be competitive as he recruits too well.
(2) Under Miles, LSU will not have major off the field issues, probation etc.
(3) Under Miles, LSU will always be lead by a family man of great character and integrity, unlike the Bobby Petrinos Dana Holgorsens Mike Leachs or Butch Davis' of this work.
(4) But LSU will always be 11-2 or 10-3 or 9-4 team with a rare SEC title.
Couple of points to note
(1) Since 2007 the only time the offense has rarely clicked, is in the early half of 2011 when Lee posed the genuine passing threat, defensive teams did not pack the box that much or got burnt doing so.
(2) Since the Alabama game in 2011, when JJ regained the starters role, LSU played Western Kentucky and Ole Miss which were lopsided. But against Arkansas, we were 14 points down and 10 points down against Georgia. Guess who bailed us out with a gamechanger. TM7. That woke us up.
(3) A lot of LSU's success in 2010 came from special teams play and turnovers caused by PP7.
(4) A lot of LSU's success in 2011 came from special teams play and turnovers caused by TM7.
(5) Without PP7 in 2010 and TM7 in 2011, we do not go 11-2 and 13-1 respectively. Maybe Mo Claiborne had a lot to do as with the record as well.
+To expect improvement on offensive is being naive. This is not execution, this is not play calling this is the philosophy.
+QB, OC, players change. The result is the same. Its the philosophy stupid!
+But can we do better than Miles?
23
Posted on 10/9/12 at 11:24 am to mike4lsu
i agree. although if we were executing, i.e., not dropping passes, blocking better, etc., we'd be allright.
it is possible for the stars to align and miles is able to assemble enough talent, and for whatever reason you have great team chemistry, then we would have a quality offense.
This is gonna be rare unless Miles decides he likes to run an offense, rather than just manage it so that it doesn't make mistakes.
But, I, like you, recognize miles is a good coach and has a lot of positives.
it is possible for the stars to align and miles is able to assemble enough talent, and for whatever reason you have great team chemistry, then we would have a quality offense.
This is gonna be rare unless Miles decides he likes to run an offense, rather than just manage it so that it doesn't make mistakes.
But, I, like you, recognize miles is a good coach and has a lot of positives.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 11:24 am to mike4lsu
quote:
Mett so far has all the talent in the world but has not lived up to the promise.
Slow down there buddy...
Posted on 10/9/12 at 11:40 am to mike4lsu
quote:
LSU will always be 11-2 or 10-3 or 9-4 team with a rare SEC title.
The bottom line is will that be good enough for Alleva and the TAF bigwigs?
If losing to Bama and Florida becomes a yearly occurance, I'd bet that they will step in eventually and pull the plug on Miles.
The game last weekend caused a lot of fans to take their purple and gold blinders off and see Miles a bit more clearly. If he is unwilling to make adjustments and continues to push his offensive agenda to the detriment of the program, I don't see how TAF can't help but to intervene.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 11:53 am to mike4lsu
quote:
His offensive philosophy is straight out of the 70s Big-10 (more run than pass).
interesting that both teams playing for the national championship last year use the same philosophy...
Posted on 10/9/12 at 11:54 am to mike4lsu
quote:
+But can we do better than Miles?
Hell no
Posted on 10/9/12 at 12:00 pm to mike4lsu
quote:
(4) OLine play has been horrible post 2007 when the last of Saban's guys left.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 12:06 pm to mike4lsu
quote:
(4) But LSU will always be 11-2 or 10-3 or 9-4 team with a rare SEC title.
Last year disagrees.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 12:08 pm to mike4lsu
quote:
(4) OLine play has been horrible post 2007 when the last of Saban's guys left.
I'm not sure I agree with this one. Last year our OLine was recognized as one of the best in the country and until Faulk got hurt we were one of the best this year. A ton of injuries have really screwed us on the OLine this year. That doesn't excuse the poor play but to say that the OL has been horrible since 08 is just wrong.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 12:22 pm to mike4lsu
Agree 100%.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 1:45 pm to mike4lsu
quote:
His offensive philosophy is straight out of the 70s Big-10 (more run than pass).
I don't have an issue with this when it works. When it doesn't, that is when we have to have another plan. Florida ran 20 plus runs in a row. It is when it doesn't work that I have the problem with it.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 2:11 pm to mike4lsu
There's way too much to pick a part here, but I couldn't help but try to address a strange disturbance in your logic...
In 2008:
(Unranked) LSU 38 - (#14) Georgia Tech 3
LSU had a *near school record of 28 points in the 2nd quarter -- all offensive
*The 28 points in a quarter is only surpassed by the 30 pts scored by LSU in 2008 in the 4th quarter against Troy.
Also, that year LSU outgained #7 Georgia 497 to 443 as well as outgaining #1 Alabama, #10 Auburn, #14 Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Moo State, and nearly doubled North Texas, Tulane, and Appalation State's yards.
LSU was 9th in the SEC in Total Defense and Scoring Defense that year.
This is the same year the defense gave up 50 points twice. Granted that Lee threw 16 interceptions that year, but if LSU had the defense they did in '05,'06,'07,'09,'10,'11 or now, we could have easily been on pace for an 11-2 season or better.
In 2009 you'd have a much better argument after Miles made the switch to Jefferson. Although LSU did at least enjoy a 31-10 drumming of Auburn that year. I would mainly have to place the blame on JJ and his lack of ability.
In 2010:
(#11)LSU - 41 (#17)Texas A & M - 24
LSU's offense was certainly "clicking" on their way to gaining 446 yards.
In 2010, LSU outgained #6 Alabama (and put up 423 on 'em), #14 Florida, #17 Tex A&M, #22 West Virginia, Ole Miss, and McNeese St. And the Tigers doubled the yardage of Vandy and Tennesee.
But yea, haven't had any signs of life since 2007.
I really hate it when people make this arugement: Take away this player and x. The bottom line is we don't know what would happen... and there is no way of knowing what would happen.
Take your same argument and apply it to the loss of Perrilloux. If he doesn't get kicked off the team in February of 2008 do we not win a poop-ton more games?
In 2008, LSU lost to the #11, #7, and #1 team in the country (#1 in overtime that year 27-21). After the Alabama loss, we were clearly emotionally drained, and did not even show up until the 4th quarter to play Troy and didn't show up at all the play Ole Miss. Even though our offense numbers were pretty good in '08, can you imagine how much better they would be if we didn't have a first year SEC QB starting? A present Perrilloux would have done wonders to help keep the defense off the field and keep up from our end of the year collapse.
In 2009, LSU only lost to the #1 and the #3 team in the country before suffering an embarassing last second brain malfunction against Ole Miss and the mud bowl against Sandusky State. You gotta believe that Perrilloux would have been worth at least 1 win right??
Hell, in 2010, would we have lost to the eventual National Champions at their place if they didn't recruit Cam Newton?
I try to stay level headed about my analysis of LSU, and 'm certainly no Miles apologist, but who are we gonna go get? And more importantly, how the hell do we explain to the rest of the nation why we are firing Miles?
quote:
Since 2007 the only time the offense has rarely clicked, is in the early half of 2011
In 2008:
(Unranked) LSU 38 - (#14) Georgia Tech 3
LSU had a *near school record of 28 points in the 2nd quarter -- all offensive
*The 28 points in a quarter is only surpassed by the 30 pts scored by LSU in 2008 in the 4th quarter against Troy.
Also, that year LSU outgained #7 Georgia 497 to 443 as well as outgaining #1 Alabama, #10 Auburn, #14 Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Moo State, and nearly doubled North Texas, Tulane, and Appalation State's yards.
LSU was 9th in the SEC in Total Defense and Scoring Defense that year.
This is the same year the defense gave up 50 points twice. Granted that Lee threw 16 interceptions that year, but if LSU had the defense they did in '05,'06,'07,'09,'10,'11 or now, we could have easily been on pace for an 11-2 season or better.
In 2009 you'd have a much better argument after Miles made the switch to Jefferson. Although LSU did at least enjoy a 31-10 drumming of Auburn that year. I would mainly have to place the blame on JJ and his lack of ability.
In 2010:
(#11)LSU - 41 (#17)Texas A & M - 24
LSU's offense was certainly "clicking" on their way to gaining 446 yards.
In 2010, LSU outgained #6 Alabama (and put up 423 on 'em), #14 Florida, #17 Tex A&M, #22 West Virginia, Ole Miss, and McNeese St. And the Tigers doubled the yardage of Vandy and Tennesee.
But yea, haven't had any signs of life since 2007.
quote:
Without PP7 in 2010 and TM7 in 2011, we do not go 11-2 and 13-1 respectively.
I really hate it when people make this arugement: Take away this player and x. The bottom line is we don't know what would happen... and there is no way of knowing what would happen.
Take your same argument and apply it to the loss of Perrilloux. If he doesn't get kicked off the team in February of 2008 do we not win a poop-ton more games?
In 2008, LSU lost to the #11, #7, and #1 team in the country (#1 in overtime that year 27-21). After the Alabama loss, we were clearly emotionally drained, and did not even show up until the 4th quarter to play Troy and didn't show up at all the play Ole Miss. Even though our offense numbers were pretty good in '08, can you imagine how much better they would be if we didn't have a first year SEC QB starting? A present Perrilloux would have done wonders to help keep the defense off the field and keep up from our end of the year collapse.
In 2009, LSU only lost to the #1 and the #3 team in the country before suffering an embarassing last second brain malfunction against Ole Miss and the mud bowl against Sandusky State. You gotta believe that Perrilloux would have been worth at least 1 win right??
Hell, in 2010, would we have lost to the eventual National Champions at their place if they didn't recruit Cam Newton?
quote:
But can we do better than Miles?
I try to stay level headed about my analysis of LSU, and 'm certainly no Miles apologist, but who are we gonna go get? And more importantly, how the hell do we explain to the rest of the nation why we are firing Miles?
Posted on 10/9/12 at 2:26 pm to mike4lsu
quote:
(1) He runs a clean program
You mean he's good at not getting caught
Posted on 10/9/12 at 3:29 pm to mike4lsu
quote:
(2) Under Miles, LSU will not have major off the field issues
:lolwut:
Posted on 10/9/12 at 3:48 pm to mike4lsu
Well said. I like Miles, respect him. Glad he's at LSU but honestly, wish Saban had stayed.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 5:10 pm to mike4lsu
I agree with you mostly but a good OC could fix this
Posted on 10/9/12 at 5:13 pm to mike4lsu
quote:
(3) Passing game will always be poor. QB recruitiment
i guess you forgot about RP. Posted on 10/9/12 at 5:49 pm to mike4lsu
quote:
1) His offensive philosophy is straight out of the 70s Big-10 (more run than pass).
you mean when ohio state and michigan and notre dame were winning all those nc's.
quote:
) OLine play has been horrible post 2007 when the last of Saban's guys left.
i call bull shite on this. '09 was bad. others have been as good or better than saban's. and this years problems are pretty obviously due to injuries; to ignore that is irresponsible. also, i agree our OL is not the best pass blockers as they are designed more for run blocking but sans the injuries they were good enough.
quote:
But LSU will always be 11-2 or 10-3 or 9-4 team with a rare SEC title.
he has won 2 sec titles in 7 years and challenged every year except '09. calling that "rare" is crazy. check ALL of the other SEC teams and see how that compares. it's a damn competitive league.
i find your entire post a veiled attempt to portray les miles as a nice family man that can't coach football. your analysis is very subjective and you give him no credit for anything football related except he recruits well. also, you have discounted any good offenses we've had in the past and gave credit to other coaches or a handful of players. in other words you are merely sounding off live some on here in that YOU GIVE MILES NO CREDIT AND ALL THE BLAME.
Posted on 10/9/12 at 10:42 pm to mike4lsu
quote:
3) Passing game will always be poor. QB recruitiment / QB development has not happened since Saban's players left in 2007 (Russell & Flynn
Flynn was a RS Soph when Miles became coach. Most of his coaching happened under Miles. Saban gets no credit for the 2007 NC year (he was 3 years remocved from the program and going into 07 the minimal time Flynn played, he didn't look good.
quote:
(4) OLine play has been horrible post 2007 when the last of Saban's guys left.
The OL was extremely good last year and like all SEC teams, the OL looks good when you get experience on it. Our OL this year would look much better without injuries.
quote:
But LSU will always be 11-2 or 10-3 or 9-4 team with a rare SEC title
disagree....he's been here 7 full years and won 2 SEC championships and lost the SECCG. LSU is part of the cycle of the conference. We are extremely good about every 4 years. PLaying for the conference championship 3 of 7 years isn't rare. It's extremely good.
quote:
(1) Since 2007 the only time the offense has rarely clicked, is in the early half of 2011 when Lee posed the genuine passing threat, defensive teams did not pack the box that much or got burnt doing so.
Agree, but most acknowledge the limited passing accuracy of our 2 QBs during that stretch of 07-11. We also had Crowton who was bad (and has continued to be bad at his next 2 stops after LSU).
quote:
3) A lot of LSU's success in 2010 came from special teams play and turnovers caused by PP7. (4) A lot of LSU's success in 2011 came from special teams play and turnovers caused by TM7. (5) Without PP7 in 2010 and TM7 in 2011, we do not go 11-2 and 13-1 respectively. Maybe Mo Claiborne had a lot to do as with the record as well.
Stating the obvious....all teams with very good recrods have strong defenses and really good special teams. I don't see how this is a negative. If you are going to have a chance to play for the NC you have to be solid in all 3 phases. The fact our special teams was so good is a testament to the coaching staff focusing on it as a legitimate part of our success. Urban Meyer did the same at Florida by playing starters on STs.
quote:
+To expect improvement on offensive is being naive. This is not execution, this is not play calling this is the philosophy
Disagree....youth and inexperience will correct some of the OL issues alone. Philosophy doesn't cause dropped passes or 10 penalties and 2-3 turnovers a game. There is a lot of room for improvement in the execution department.
quote:
+QB, OC, players change. The result is the same
Give us 1 year with a legit passing QB and a healthy OL and you will feel different.
quote:
+But can we do better than Miles?
It would be extremely difficult.
Posted on 10/10/12 at 12:29 am to mike4lsu
quote:
But LSU will always be 11-2 or 10-3 or 9-4 team with a rare SEC title
He's done it 2 times in seven years. That's not "Rare". That's badass. And last years record was what again? Oh, always must mean something completely different to you than to everyone else in the english speaking world.
Jesus isn't coming to coach LSU. Bear Bryant is dead and wouldn't be as good as Saban right now. Or Les for that matter because he couldn't recruit without cheating. People who think LSU should be a paragon of perfection or the coach has failed have not watched much college football.
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