Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS - Page 104 - TigerDroppings.com

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SCTmo
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2007
1278 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


This was discussed earlier (but not sure in this thread).

Do most people feel Martin will remain true to his word and NOT change the outcome of certain characters based on the fact that dots have been drawn online to answer a number of the prophecies? I would find it greatly disappointing to get thrown a curveball when he has perfectly foreshadowed the fates of some of our characters.

I know this thread is - by design - full of crackpot theories, but does anyone actually believe there is an explanation for the Tower of Joy OTHER than Jon being Lyanna and Rhaegar's child? If so, is your primary reason for doubting this conclusion the fact that Martin wouldn't make it so "obvious?" Any other evidence/clues to lead you to another answer?

Have re-read the books twice through, and I just can't fathom any other explanation for this particular part of the story.







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OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
37155 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I know this thread is - by design - full of crackpot theories, but does anyone actually believe there is an explanation for the Tower of Joy OTHER than Jon being Lyanna and Rhaegar's child? If so, is your primary reason for doubting this conclusion the fact that Martin wouldn't make it so "obvious?" Any other evidence/clues to lead you to another answer?



I doubt he'll change that one, even if it is predictable. Some things are predicted long in advance in many series, and become the most satisfying moment when they are fulfilled.






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CottonWasKing
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4,8,15,16,23,42
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Do most people feel Martin will remain true to his word and NOT change the outcome of certain characters based on the fact that dots have been drawn online to answer a number of the prophecies? I would find it greatly disappointing to get thrown a curveball when he has perfectly foreshadowed the fates of some of our characters.


GRRM has addressed this numerous times. He maintains that while he is aware of a few major theories first the most part he likes to stay ignorant of this type of thing. He also has said that he refuses to write his story around us, he has drawn his clues and if he starts changing the endgame now they wouldn't make sense and would destroy his work.






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SCTmo
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2007
1278 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

GRRM has addressed this numerous times. He maintains that while he is aware of a few major theories first the most part he likes to stay ignorant of this type of thing. He also has said that he refuses to write his story around us, he has drawn his clues and if he starts changing the endgame now they wouldn't make sense and would destroy his work.


Yes, he's addressed it. I just wonder if he's going to follow through or if he's blowing smoke.

Young Griff/Aegon seemed to come right out of left field (though many would connect him to the "Mummer's Dragon" prophecy) as did Cersei's prophecy in AFFC. I've just felt that since SOS he's been flying by the seat of his pants a little more.

Of course, we all know he'll die before completing the series - so probably a moot point.






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OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
37155 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

as did Cersei's prophecy in AFFC. I've just felt that since SOS he's been flying by the seat of his pants a little more.


Nah, the prophesy explains Cersei well. Cersei has been absolutely terrified of Tyrion throughout the series, and this explains why she's so afraid of him, when everyone else before CoK greatly underestimated his uses and abilities. Say what you will about Tywin, but he was never afraid of Tyrion.






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Carson123987
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Member since Jul 2011
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

It is so much more than a book Carson. I actually feel this. Like deep inside. If Arya ever dies I will burn the fricking book


We are on the same page






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SCTmo
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2007
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Nah, the prophesy explains Cersei well. Cersei has been absolutely terrified of Tyrion throughout the series, and this explains why she's so afraid of him, when everyone else before CoK greatly underestimated his uses and abilities. Say what you will about Tywin, but he was never afraid of Tyrion.


I guess the fact that she was not a POV character until AFFC could contribute to that fact, but I never much got fear of Tyrion until Joff was killed in SOS. Perhaps ordering the Kingsguard member (name escapes me) to kill Tyrion in COK could have been an indication of some personal fear, but I just never saw it that way. Of course, after reading AFFC I can see that view, but in the moment it seemed like she had disdain for Tyrion like her father did, and she wanted him out of her hair primarily because he was usurping her power - nothing about her fear that Tyrion would kill her.

The prophecy appeared, to me, to be a way to retcon that relationship to an extent and provide some padding now that we get to go into Cersei's mind in AFFC. Those chapters were actually pretty damn entertaining and interesting, I just couldn't help but think "wasn't this convenient" when the prophecy was described.

Of course, you did just finish the series so it may be fresher in your mind. Finished my re-read in June so may be struggling with smaller moments.

Also, not trying to be negative. I've loved the series enough to plow through it multiple times. Only growing slightly concerned at how he can possible wrap this thing up satisfactorily.



This post was edited on 10/16 at 10:33 pm


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OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Perhaps ordering the Kingsguard member (name escapes me) to kill Tyrion in COK could have been an indication of some personal fear, but I just never saw it that way. Of course, after reading AFFC I can see that view, but in the moment it seemed like she had disdain for Tyrion like her father did, and she wanted him out of her hair primarily because he was usurping her power - nothing about her fear that Tyrion would kill her.


Yeah, that's one of the big ones, but Cersei very much feared Tyrion around her children from the start of the series, and Joffrey feared Tyrion as well. With Myrcella, I think she thought Tyrion was sending her to her death basically by handing her over to the Dornishmen, and she had him have him killed before she led to her, Joffrey, and Tommen's death. Cersei still saw herself as the one in power during CoK and that Tyrion was just a nuissance to her rule, but he was a huge threat to her and her children's lives.



This post was edited on 10/16 at 10:36 pm


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SCTmo
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Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2007
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Yeah, that's one of the big ones, but Cersei very much feared Tyrion around her children from the start of the series, and Joffrey feared Tyrion as well. With Myrcella, I think she thought Tyrion was sending her to her death basically by handing her over to the Dornishmen, and she had him have him killed before she led to her, Joffrey, and Tommen's death. Cersei still saw herself as the one in power during CoK and that Tyrion was just a nuissance to her rule, but he was a huge threat to her and her children's lives.



Of course Joffrey hated him - Tyrion was one of the only people who openly put the kid in his place (insert obligatory gif here)



I don't think either of us disagree about the EXTREME protectiveness of Cersei, just sort of the motivation behind it. Clearly your reasoning is correct based on the whole of the text. I guess I struggle with it because before AFFC, I wouldn't have viewed that motivation the same way (if that makes sense). Hence why we're discussing it right now.






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Calen50
LSU Fan
Scott, LA
Member since Dec 2011
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I just read all 108 pages of this just waiting on this crackpot theory/foreshadow...
Lollys (forget the exact spelling of her name) is raped on the way back to the RK. She becomes with child. Is married off to now Lord Bronn. She bears a child that they name Tyrion.
How is this not forshadowing Tyrion could have been a child that came from Aerys possibly "raping" Joanna?
Kinda spells out (to me at least) the reason why Tywin becomes infuriated and leaves KL.






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OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Tyrion is his father's son. I refuse to believe that Aerys is his father. Its a retarded theory.





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Carson123987
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Member since Jul 2011
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I agree. That theory is too out there. If that was true, id be really frickin mad





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OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
37155 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

I agree. That theory is too out there. If that was true, id be really frickin mad



Yeah, that may piss me off more than them just killing off Tyrion in the next book.






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NIH
LA-Lafayette Fan
Lafayette, LA
Member since Aug 2008
59823 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


That's the downfall of Tywin...for being such a perceptive, smart guy he failed to see that Tyrion was the most like him and a good person while missing Cersei & Jamie's fricked up relationship all together. Even Kevan knew.





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OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
37155 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

That's the downfall of Tywin...for being such a perceptive, smart guy he failed to see that Tyrion was the most like him and a good person while missing Cersei & Jamie's fricked up relationship all together. Even Kevan knew.



As calculating as he was with the kingdom, he was completely blind to his own children. Tywin way overestimated Jaime's worth and never truly understood his goals or priorities. He ignored Jaime and Cersei's incestuous relationship that if found out would lead to the downfall of his house. And he greatly underestimated Tyrion until the end, and his loathing of Tyrion will bring the ultimate downfall of his house. If Tyrion were not a dwarf and not indirectly responsible for his mother's death, and somehow had the same personality, then Tyrion would undoubtably be Tywin's favored child.






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19
LSU Fan
Katy, Tx
Member since Nov 2007
2693 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


I had the exact same thy -maybe not in this thread- of how Tyrion could be from Aerys. Hadn't picked up the Lollys rape child Tyrion link. Nice catch.

Sorry guys but when I read the books, this thy not only seemed possible, but likely. Not nearly as out there as some others I've heard. Like I said before, something sent Tywin and family packing for Cast Rock quick fast and in a hurry.

Then when Tywin returns, he betrays Aerys, has Jaime kill Aerys and effectively ends the Targ line forever ordering Rhaegars kids slaughtered.

Some big shite was on Tywins mind. Much more than fealty proof to Robert.






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OMLandshark
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Apr 2009
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


Sorry, but the theory is complete bull shite. Tywin was Hand of the King for another 8 years after Tyrion was born. If Tywin left right before or soon after Tyrion was born, then you may have a case. But no, the theory is complete bull shite and insulting from things directly told to us and hinted. No way Tyrion is Aerys' son. There are too many of those floating around right now anyway.





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Carson123987
LSU Fan
Middle Court at the Rec
Member since Jul 2011
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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

Sorry, but the theory is complete bull shite. Tywin was Hand of the King for another 8 years after Tyrion was born. If Tywin left right before or soon after Tyrion was born, then you may have a case. But no, the theory is complete bull shite and insulting from things directly told to us and hinted. No way Tyrion is Aerys' son. There are too many of those floating around right now anyway.


You made my exact post






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weaglebeagle
Auburn Fan
Alabama
Member since Jan 2011
1317 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


IN

Finally.

Now to read all 100 pages.






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SCTmo
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2007
1278 posts

re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS


quote:

No way Tyrion is Aerys' son. There are too many of those floating around right now anyway.


Agree 100% with you. I would say this red herring (from ADWD right?) is another example of Martin just randomly throwing shite into the story that's possibly influenced by Westeros.org and other online sites (as this idea had been bandied about before ADWD was published*).

After SOS, I find it hard to believe anyone could think Tyrion was anything but Tywin's son (their last exchange so perfectly reflecting each other). However, Martin has added in that Tyrion had dragon dreams (this was from ADWD, right?) and the Joanna tidbit. Many had already thought Tyrion would be one of the 3 heads of the dragon (likely with Jon and Dany) and since Jon/Dany are more than likely Targaryen descendants, so too must Tyrion be. Not saying I agree with it (don't necessarily believe the three heads must be Targaryens OR that Tyrion will be one of the three heads), but that's what leads to the speculation.

Tyrion not being Tywin's son would undercut many of the events from the first three books. Also it would indicate that Westeros had a bigger bastard problem than North Baton Rouge.




This post was edited on 10/17 at 9:14 am


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