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The Effect of Integration on LSU & HBCU Football Talent, 1964-1979

Posted on 1/17/11 at 2:54 am
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 2:54 am
A point was raised in another thread about the effect of integration. There is a lot of distortion out there about how the sport changed during the 60's and 70's, so in honor of MLK Day, here's a little post about the history of integration and its effects on CFB and LSU.

I'm not an expert on the Civil Rights Era and the legislative effects on higher education of various acts of Congress by any means. Still just looking at some NFL Draft history and other sources, it appears as though a lot more football talent started entering HBCU around the fall of 1964, and that this trend started to reverse quite rapidly around the early 1970s, so that by the end of the 1970s, the amount of football talent at HBCUs had really dwindled quite a bit.

Here is some data on NFL Draft selections around this time, with a few buffer years before-and-after to show how the surge in talent ebbed and flowed at various places:


NFL Draft Picks by Year of Spring Drafts

Grambling ( LINK)
1964, 2
1965, 4
1966, 4
1967, 4
1968, 5
1969, 8
1970, 9
1971, 8 (5 in the first 2 rounds)
1972, 4
1973, 4
1974, 4
1975, 3
1976, 8
1977, 0
1978, 3 (inlcuding Doug Williams)
1979, 2
1980, 2
1981, 2
1982, 1

Southern ( LINK)
1964, 3
1965, 1
1966, 2
1967, 2
1968, 5
1969, 6
1970, 6
1971, 4
1972, 6
1973, 3
1974, 3
1975, 2
1976, 2
1977, 1
1978, 2
1979, 0
1980, 3
1981, 2
1982, 0

Florida A&M ( LINK)
1964, 3 (including Bob Hayes)
1965, 2
1966, 3
1967, 1
1968, 4
1969, 2
1970, 3
1971, 2
1972, 1
1973, 0
1974, 1
1975, 1
1976, 2
1977, 1
1978, 1
1979, 0
1980, 3
1981, 0
1982, 0

Jackson State ( LINK)
1964, 1
1965, 3
1966, 1
1967, 5
1968, 11
1969, 3
1970, 4
1971, 0
1972, 5
1973, 1
1974, 3
1975, 5 (including Walter Payton)
1976, 2
1977, 2
1978, 5
1979, 2
1980, 1
1981, 2
1982, 2

Syracuse
1957, 4 (including Jim Brown)
1958-64, average of 5.57 NFL draftees per year
1965-71, average of 2.43 NFL draftees per year

LSU ( LINK)
1962, 7
1963, 5
1964, 4
1965, 2
1966, 1
1967, 3
1968, 2
1969, 4
1970, 3
1971, 3
1972, 4
1973, 2
1974, 2 (including Collis Temple)
1975, 6
1976, 4
1977, 3
1978, 2
1979, 3
1980, 4
1981, 5
1982, 2
1983, 6
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 2:55 am to
Some interesting links and reading material...


Some interesting trailblazers:

Jesse Owens -- won NCAA track championships for Ohio State in 1935 & 1936

George Taliaferro, RB at Indiana (1945-48) -- became the first black player selected in the NFL Draft in the spring of 1949

A.P. Tureaud Jr. -- becomes the first black student admitted as an undergrad to LSU in 1953 ( LINK)

Wayne Edmonds -- becomes the first black football player to earn a letter for Notre Dame in 1953

Jim Brown, RB at Syracuse (1954-56) -- very famous

Sandy Stephens, QB at Minnesota (1959-61 LINK) -- led the 9-2 Minnesota Gophers to the AP & UPI titles in 1960, despite Ole Miss being 10-0-1

James Meredith -- became the first black student at Ole Miss in 1962

Nat Northington -- became the first black player to participate in an SEC football game, playing wideout for Kentucky against Ole Miss in 1967 ( LINK); Greg Page, another black athlete who joined the UK team with him in 1966, died after an incident during practice

Lora Hinton -- first black football player at LSU in 1971; Collis Temple Jr. played basketball that year; Maravich's last year was 1970, and Dale Brown's first year was 1972, the same year Collis joined the varsity team

John Mitchell, DE/LB at Alabama (1971-1972) -- first black football player at Alabama; was drafted in 1973, but coached DEs at Alabama from 1973-76; later coached OLBs at LSU from 1987-90, eventually becoming an NFL coach; he still coaches for the Steelers


XXX


You can also read about Brown v. Board in 1954, the Civil Rights Act of 1957, the Civil Rights Act of 1960, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title IX of 1972, etc.
This post was edited on 1/17/11 at 3:14 pm
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 2:55 am to
It appears as though the dwindling trend in HBCU talent was very clearly related to the integration policies of SEC football in the 1970s. Nat Northington may have played a game for Kentucky in 1967, but no significant change in trends started happening until Bear Bryant recruited John Mitchell for the fall of 1971.

From 1957 to 1974, the SEC clearly dominated the world of college football. About 40% of the SEC teams that played during this time ended the season ranked in the Top 20, which is just incredible. But as black athletes began to take on more and more of a central role on elite CFB teams, we see that the SEC struggled to keep up with its old dominance, with the exceptions of Alabama and Georgia. The SEC really didn't catch up to being its old self until Bama won its NC in 1992 and Spurrier and Fulmer got the Gators and Vols rolling with pass happy offenses.

As for the 1970s, this was an era when Ohio State, Michigan, Southern Cal, Penn State, Pitt, Oklahoma, and Nebraska really caught fire.

In the South, teams that benefitted from the shifting demographic winds of CFB included Florida State (which began heavily recruiting black football players in 1967) and Miami. Both Bobby Bowden and Howard Schnellenberger were pioneers in this respect.

One part of the integration story that is often forgotten is the huge upset win Florida A&M got over Schnellenberger's Canes in 1979.

Back in 1976, a Grambling team coached by Eddie Robinson and led by Doug Williams went on the road to take on a weak (4-6) Temple squad ( LINK only wins were against Akron, Grambling, Drake, & Dayton), and came away with a heartbreaking 31-30 loss to the Owls.

But even though Grambling had the talent, Florida A&M Rattlers were able to pull off winning 2 black college football national championships in 1977 & 1978 under legendary coach Rudy Hubbard, a former standout player at Ohio State in the 1960s under Woody Hayes. He pulled off amazing feats against non-HBCU football powers in 1978 & 1979.

As some might know, 1978 was the first year in which the NCAA split Division I into two subdivisions, I-A and I-AA, and thus, this was the first year in which there was a I-AA playoff. It was won by none other than the FAMU Rattlers. As the article on Hubbard states, FAMU played on "December 16, 1978, defeating the University of Massachusetts by the score 35-28, making Florida A&M the first and only HBCU today to have accomplished this feat." The Minutemen were a good team in 1978 too ( LINK), having lost to Rutgers 11-21 and beaten Boston College 27-0.

In a lot of ways though, FAMU's 16-13 upset over the Miami Hurricanes in 1979, Schnellenberger's first year, was even bigger. There is a good SI article on it from October 15, 1979 ( LINK). It was an unusual road game for the (5-6) Canes to schedule in 1979 (a Canes team that, for what it's worth, beat an 8-4 Penn State team 26-10 in University Park, Pennsylvania), but the Canes would get their revenge in 1980 when FAMU came to visit Miami in Coral Gables with a 49-0 shellacking.

This showed that the era of HBCU competitiveness was coming to a close, and that even in the I-AA playoffs, few HBCU would seriously contend for championships anymore. There would be an occasional great player like Jerry Rice in the 1980s, but by and large, the SWAC and the MEAC faded into relative obscurity at the bottom of the rung of the Division I hierarchy, where they remain today.

For a brief period of time, though, with the NFL Draft surge of the late 60's and early 70's, and with FAMU's great upsets in 1978 & 1979, some HBCU teams actually played some really exciting football.
This post was edited on 1/17/11 at 3:08 am
Posted by c on z
Zamunda
Member since Mar 2009
127379 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 3:29 am to
Why is Collis Temple in the discussion regarding NFL draft as a basketball player?
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 3:34 am to
First, just because I'm trying to put things in historical perspective in the order that they occurred. Second, because he is significant in being the first black athlete selected from LSU in the NFL Draft, even though he didn't play college or pro football.

In the next year, the Chargers picked Mike Williams as a CB in the first round.

EDIT: Although LSU recruited a couple of black players in 1971, I think Williams might have been the first to actually play on scholarship in 1972. I'm not really sure though.
This post was edited on 1/17/11 at 3:37 am
Posted by tigger1
Member since Mar 2005
3476 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 4:30 am to
Doc 2 other things effect football just as much as intergration in those times:

1st platoon football

2nd money was very hard to come by in the late 50's and into the 60's in the south.


Minor things also effected football like this:

In the 1930's-early 60's areas like Istrouma had what are called block football teams and they played against each other weekly.

My Grandmother's field saw players like Cannon, Rice, Rosto, etc play there months on end 11 vs 11 block teams.

By the middle 60's football block teams were gone around places like Istrouma, because jobs and other interest. The block teams were gone, but you still saw football being played near everywhere in smaller all against all games until the early 80's in the neighborhoods.

Our generation is the last pre computer, atari and only 2-3 channel tv, etc.

As I told Ronnie Battle (A. Battle's father), what is the most TD's you scored playing one day in football any level and he said 21 in a neighborhood game, and I told him of my game that lasted form 3pm-11:30pm You do not see neighborhood games of those likes in todays world.

Intergation is a major part of a much larger puzzle when talking about football today vs yesterday and there is much more to it than just a black vs white issue and the wrongs of yesterday. It is a far different time today and platoon football is the only reason you see all the 300+ lb linemen. And money makes a major difference on what the children play on the streets.
This post was edited on 1/17/11 at 4:41 am
Posted by DocJerome
New Jersey
Member since Aug 2009
887 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 9:08 am to
Great post Doc! I often talk to young athletes about this when choosing a potential college to attend. This will be bookmarked.
Posted by GeuaxPhish
Saint Augustine Beach, Fl
Member since Oct 2008
174 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 9:39 am to
so not until 7 years after signing of the Civil Rights Bill, did LSU begin to recruit african americans student atheletes?


Posted by TheLoupGarou
Benton, LA
Member since Oct 2010
1181 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 9:44 am to
Doc, keep posting.
Posted by I-59 Tiger
Vestavia Hills, AL
Member since Sep 2003
36703 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 9:50 am to
Excellent post, Doc.
Posted by vl100butch
Ridgeland, MS
Member since Sep 2005
34623 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 9:52 am to
quote:

so not until 7 years after signing of the Civil Rights Bill, did LSU begin to recruit african americans student atheletes?


yep.....

if i remember correctly, it was against the law for LSU to play an integrated team at one point!!!!
Posted by Rockerbraves
Greatest Nation on Earth
Member since Feb 2007
8015 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 9:56 am to
quote:

so not until 7 years after signing of the Civil Rights Bill, did LSU begin to recruit african americans student atheletes?
Now it seems that is all they sign.
Posted by mule74
Watersound Beach
Member since Nov 2004
11286 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 10:08 am to
When I was in Michigan for work recently I argured with a group of mostly Mich/Mich St. alums that intergration was the death blow to the Big Ten.

It took 30+ years to see the full effect but as more and more young black men were first allowed and then felt comfortable going to SEC schools they stopped heading north to play college ball.

That caused a gradual decline of the the traditional northern power houses.


ETA: Also, "yankees" that I've dealt with or completely uncomfortable with the topic of race. I guess because I grew up in the rural south, in a majority black community, I had to confront it at an early age.
This post was edited on 1/17/11 at 10:11 am
Posted by Mindenfan
Minden
Member since Sep 2006
4786 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 10:19 am to
Lora Hinton
Posted by c on z
Zamunda
Member since Mar 2009
127379 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 10:30 am to
quote:

Lora Hinton



He was one of the football coaches at my high school.
Posted by Rockerbraves
Greatest Nation on Earth
Member since Feb 2007
8015 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 10:32 am to
quote:

When I was in Michigan for work recently I argured with a group of mostly Mich/Mich St. alums that intergration was the death blow to the Big Ten
Did you mention Bubba Smith (Beaumont, TX) to the Spartan fan? Pretty sure he would have been a Longhorn.
Posted by N.O. via West-Cal
New Orleans
Member since Aug 2004
7178 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 11:25 am to
Interesting and timely post by Doc.

I'll throw out a couple of things that are more or less related:

At some point in time, I believe in the late 1970's, Grambling was second only to Notre Dame in number of players on NFL rosters. Pretty amazing if you think about it. As Doc pointed out, the best HBCU's could have competed with (and in some cases, did) top I-A teams. Now, it is rare for a HBCU to be able to compete against elite I-AA programs. To be fair, though, you can't judge solely by the playoffs because two top HBCU's play in the Heritage Bowl rather than being eligible for the playoffs.

there were fairly numerous instances in the 1950's when Southern, segregated teams would turn down invitations to play in basketball tournaments because they would be playing integrated teams.

I don't have the information handy, but I suspect some younger Tiger fans would be surprised at how relatively recently LSU had teams even compete AGAINST integrated teams. I don't believe LSU football did so until the 1960's.

Posted by Baloo
Formerly MDGeaux
Member since Sep 2003
49645 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 11:58 am to
quote:

When I was in Michigan for work recently I argured with a group of mostly Mich/Mich St. alums that intergration was the death blow to the Big Ten.
Interesting take, and I see your point. I'd also point out that Ole Miss' central role in the battle against integration is a large reason why their football team slid into irrelevance as the SEC integrated. Fair or unfair, Ole Miss was the media focal point of segragation, and I can't imagine how difficult is was for them to recruit black athletes in the wake of that.

It's 50 years later, and Ole Miss is STILL caught up in some degree in its segregationsit past, while most other schools have been able to move on from it. Not saying LSU's record on race relations is unblemished, but kids aren't raised on newsreel footage of it.
Posted by Rockerbraves
Greatest Nation on Earth
Member since Feb 2007
8015 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 2:12 pm to
quote:

Not saying LSU's record on race relations is unblemished
LSU seems to have done a compete switch over. How many white WR's and RB's has LSU signed on schollies in the past decade.
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 1/17/11 at 3:25 pm to
quote:

When I was in Michigan for work recently I argured with a group of mostly Mich/Mich St. alums that intergration was the death blow to the Big Ten.


Not quite a death blow, but it certainly started hurting them once the era came to a close.

You could say that very early on (as in pre-1965), certain Northern schools with good reputations for race relations, such as Syracuse or Minnesota, were able to increase their talent level beyond their normal baseline level.

Then, during a short transition era (maybe 1966 to 1976), HBCUs were able to dramatically increase their talent level.

Finally, by the 1980s, when all the dust had cleared, most Southern schools were demographically situated to start retaining some of the talented black football players at nearby high schools.

As some have mentioned, there were schools such as Ole Miss that may have still had a negative stigma attached to them, but it's hard for me to say for sure. I don't know what exactly motivates a high school kid to decide to go to a particular school in the 80's or 90's. I just know that during this time period, HBCUs declined in talent, and the SEC rose back to its old status on the top of the CFB world.

I'm not sure how capable Grambling teams from 1968 to 1972 would have been in trying to keep up with SEC competition like LSU, but it would have been interesting to see. Sadly, these games never occurred. We do know, however, that by 1976-79, HBCUs were not on the level of major CFB powers, although they could occasionally play a competitive game against a Temple, UMass, or Miami.
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