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Reality Check: LSU has never been an elite SEC program

Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:46 pm
Posted by pdxlsufan
Beaverton, Oregon
Member since May 2008
3226 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:46 pm
I think a LOT of the angst on the rant is from people who think LSU should be an elite SEC program. But have we ever been an elite SEC program? No.

We've been close, but we've never really gotten there or stayed there long enough to be considered an elite program.

So just who are the elite SEC programs? Based on data (see below) and just common sense, the obvious answer is Florida and Bama.

Florida is 7-3 in the SECCG.
Bama is 3-4 in the SECCG.
Tennessee is 2-3 in the SECG.
LSU is 3-1 in the SECG.
Georgia is 2-1 in the SECG.
Auburn is 1-2 in the SECG.
Arky is 0-3 in the SECG.
Miss State is 0-1 in the SECG.
UK, SC, Vandy & Ole Miss have never been to SECG.

After some lean years, Florida and Bama reestablished their dominance the last four years. Bama has been an elite program for as long as anyone can remember (like the Yankees). Florida became an elite team under Spurrier and despite setbacks under Zook, Meyer reestablished them as an elite team. It's no accident that Florida and Bama met in 2008 and 2009 for the SECCG because they are the SEC's elite teams -- they also played each other in 4 of the first 5 SECCGs.

LSU, Georgia and Auburn are highly competitive, but NOT elite. Never have been. Could one day become elite but thus far it hasn't happened. LSU has two crystal footballs despite not being elite, but don't think the 2004 Auburn team couldn't have won a crystal football (they were unlucky and went undefeated during a year with two other unbeatens) or that this year's Auburn team won't be playing for a crystal football. Tennessee belongs in this group as well, but they've fallen since the departure of Fulmer and have yet to regain their footing. Arkansas may take their place.

The problem many LSU fans have is that they think we should be an elite SEC team but can't accept that even under Nicky Saban we never have been an elite team. We've been good, even great, but never elite. I don't know that we ever will be.
This post was edited on 10/25/10 at 6:25 pm
Posted by lsusteve1
Member since Dec 2004
42017 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:48 pm to
We are about as elite as you can get in the SEC since 2001....

Nobody wants to see that decline back to mediocrity.

So.........
This post was edited on 10/25/10 at 5:53 pm
Posted by oilfieldtiger
Pittsburgh, PA
Member since Dec 2003
2904 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:49 pm to
there's no reason we shouldn't be. we have better everything than at any time in our history + a fertile recruiting base basically all to ourselves.

there's a reason LSU was constantly referred to as a sleeping giant program.

i think it's more accurate to say we've underperformed historically due to not being able to get out of our own way, either due to political interference, lack of resources applied, or just bad coaching decisions.
This post was edited on 10/25/10 at 5:52 pm
Posted by Circle the Wagons
Member since Mar 2010
467 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:51 pm to
It looks like you've defined "elite" as every team clearly above LSU, historically. You could easily include LSU in "elite" status using the very information you provided. It looks like LSU has the third-most success since the inception of the SECCG. But you just drew the line after two teams.

I guess we aren't in the top two, thanks for reminding.
Posted by SCLSUMuddogs
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2010
6899 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:52 pm to
2 national championships, 4 BCS bowl total, 4 SEC west titles, 10 bowl berths, 4 top 5 finishes in 10 years and we arent elite?
Posted by SCLSUMuddogs
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2010
6899 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:55 pm to
Do you honestly think that this decade Alabama has been elite over LSU?
Posted by Woodreaux
OC California
Member since Jan 2008
2790 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:56 pm to
Question for you, if going to conference championship game a whole bunch of times and loosing more than winning makes Bama more elite than LSU, doesn't that make Ohio State and Oklahoma make more NCAA elite than Florida and Bama?
Posted by adam32
CONWAY, AR
Member since Aug 2006
4629 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:59 pm to
your entitled to your opinion, but i have a want to tell you that i dont agree with your accessment.
Posted by CITWTT
baton rouge
Member since Sep 2005
31765 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:04 pm to
Exactly how old are you?
Posted by SCLSUMuddogs
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2010
6899 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:06 pm to
I just really cant understand your reasoning. We are tied for the most BCS National championships with florida, we also have the same amount of national titles as florida overall. If you want to look historically at the SEC then there is only one elite team, Alabama. If you want to look as SEC football this decade its
#1 LSU (4 BCS wins, 2 national titles
#2 Florida (3 BCS wins, 2 national titles
#3 Alabama (1 BCS win(2 appearances), 1 National title)
Posted by Broham
Crowley
Member since Feb 2005
18423 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:17 pm to
quote:

Pdxlsufan

WOW
Posted by tigerfan182
Franklin, Tn
Member since Sep 2009
2779 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:23 pm to
Just based on recruiting rankings, we have elite talent. Why not an elite record?
Posted by TheBaker
Prairieville
Member since Jan 2004
4314 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:24 pm to
quote:

pdxlsufan


what about pre-SECCG? Florida didn't the the SEC title until freaking 1991. LSU won the damn SEC Championship several times prior to Florida winning 1. do you understand the word "never"?
Posted by PhiTiger1764
Lurker since Aug 2003
Member since Oct 2009
13921 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:27 pm to
quote:

But have we ever been an elite SEC team? No.


Please name a more dominate, elite football program that existed over the 5-year span between 2003-2007 in the entire nation, much less one that existed in the SEC during that span. Don't tell me we have never been an elite SEC team.
Posted by mamoutiga
Lafayette, LA
Member since Sep 2009
951 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:29 pm to
Since 2001, there have been few, if any programs in the country as elite as LSU. Every game is on TV. We are in the hunt for every recruit. We have top notch facilities. We are highly ranked every year. Truth is, the national media can't wait for our staff to figure it out. LSU is loaded with talent, and they know it.
Posted by ApexTiger
cary nc
Member since Oct 2003
53777 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:52 pm to
quote:

The problem many LSU fans have is that they think we should be an elite SEC team but can't accept that even under Nicky Saban we never have been an elite team. We've been good, even great, but never elite. I don't know that we ever will be.


We won a 100 games in 10 seasons...won 2 MNC's

That's Elite!

Our instate HS talent is Elite! Therefor LSU wil be an elite program...

Your measuring stick is off

Ask any HC in College football and ask them.."Do think LSU is an Elite football program?"

What do you think they will say?
Posted by USMCTiger03
Member since Sep 2007
71176 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:57 pm to
I've stepped in deeper puddles than your analysis. And not just coming from a "homer", just at the massive holes in your reasoning.

You arbitrarily start since the inception of the SECCG in 92, which happened that the 90's were tough times for the Tigers. In contrast, we won the SEC Championship twice in the 80's.

By All Time rankings, (record, points,) LSU is second to Bama, UF is #5.LINK

By All Time record: Bama; UT; UGA; LSU; UF.

There just much much more to the SEC than you've looked at.
Posted by PiscesTiger
Concrete, WA
Member since Feb 2004
53696 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 7:12 pm to
If that's the case then,

Florida had not won an SEC title since the arrival of SOS in '91.

Alabama has had 5 losing season since 1997.

Tennessee has won 2 SEC titles since conference expansion.

Auburn has won the west once since conference expansion and has only been in the title game on 3 occassions.

Georgia hasn't been to the SEC title game but once in the last 7 seasons.

Arkansas has never won an SEC title since their arrival to the SEC in 1992.

Mississippi State has been to two SEC title games and is 0-2.

UK, SC, Ole Miss, and Vandy have not set foot in Atlanta.

My point is that if LSU is NOT an "elite" SEC program, then really only Bama is if you wanna just count titles and legends and bullshite past traditions. But in the last 20 years, LSU is as elite as any of them.
Posted by GeauxTigers0107
South Louisiana
Member since Oct 2009
9761 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 7:30 pm to
quote:

Florida is 7-3 in the SECCG.
Bama is 3-4 in the SECCG.
Tennessee is 2-3 in the SECG.
LSU is 3-1 in the SECG.
Georgia is 2-1 in the SECG.
Auburn is 1-2 in the SECG.
Arky is 0-3 in the SECG.
Miss State is 0-1 in the SECG.
UK, SC, Vandy & Ole Miss have never been to SECG.


Using your data, LSU has the best winning percentage when getting to the SECCG. Plus two BCS Championships in 4 years.

That's not elite in your eyes?

FAIL
Posted by Terry the Tiger
Cypress, Texas
Member since Jul 2009
3494 posts
Posted on 10/25/10 at 7:34 pm to
Please define "elite". Then tell me how many times since 2001 that LSU has been the Western champion or co-champion.
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