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Reality Check: LSU has never been an elite SEC program
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:46 pm
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:46 pm
I think a LOT of the angst on the rant is from people who think LSU should be an elite SEC program. But have we ever been an elite SEC program? No.
We've been close, but we've never really gotten there or stayed there long enough to be considered an elite program.
So just who are the elite SEC programs? Based on data (see below) and just common sense, the obvious answer is Florida and Bama.
Florida is 7-3 in the SECCG.
Bama is 3-4 in the SECCG.
Tennessee is 2-3 in the SECG.
LSU is 3-1 in the SECG.
Georgia is 2-1 in the SECG.
Auburn is 1-2 in the SECG.
Arky is 0-3 in the SECG.
Miss State is 0-1 in the SECG.
UK, SC, Vandy & Ole Miss have never been to SECG.
After some lean years, Florida and Bama reestablished their dominance the last four years. Bama has been an elite program for as long as anyone can remember (like the Yankees). Florida became an elite team under Spurrier and despite setbacks under Zook, Meyer reestablished them as an elite team. It's no accident that Florida and Bama met in 2008 and 2009 for the SECCG because they are the SEC's elite teams -- they also played each other in 4 of the first 5 SECCGs.
LSU, Georgia and Auburn are highly competitive, but NOT elite. Never have been. Could one day become elite but thus far it hasn't happened. LSU has two crystal footballs despite not being elite, but don't think the 2004 Auburn team couldn't have won a crystal football (they were unlucky and went undefeated during a year with two other unbeatens) or that this year's Auburn team won't be playing for a crystal football. Tennessee belongs in this group as well, but they've fallen since the departure of Fulmer and have yet to regain their footing. Arkansas may take their place.
The problem many LSU fans have is that they think we should be an elite SEC team but can't accept that even under Nicky Saban we never have been an elite team. We've been good, even great, but never elite. I don't know that we ever will be.
We've been close, but we've never really gotten there or stayed there long enough to be considered an elite program.
So just who are the elite SEC programs? Based on data (see below) and just common sense, the obvious answer is Florida and Bama.
Florida is 7-3 in the SECCG.
Bama is 3-4 in the SECCG.
Tennessee is 2-3 in the SECG.
LSU is 3-1 in the SECG.
Georgia is 2-1 in the SECG.
Auburn is 1-2 in the SECG.
Arky is 0-3 in the SECG.
Miss State is 0-1 in the SECG.
UK, SC, Vandy & Ole Miss have never been to SECG.
After some lean years, Florida and Bama reestablished their dominance the last four years. Bama has been an elite program for as long as anyone can remember (like the Yankees). Florida became an elite team under Spurrier and despite setbacks under Zook, Meyer reestablished them as an elite team. It's no accident that Florida and Bama met in 2008 and 2009 for the SECCG because they are the SEC's elite teams -- they also played each other in 4 of the first 5 SECCGs.
LSU, Georgia and Auburn are highly competitive, but NOT elite. Never have been. Could one day become elite but thus far it hasn't happened. LSU has two crystal footballs despite not being elite, but don't think the 2004 Auburn team couldn't have won a crystal football (they were unlucky and went undefeated during a year with two other unbeatens) or that this year's Auburn team won't be playing for a crystal football. Tennessee belongs in this group as well, but they've fallen since the departure of Fulmer and have yet to regain their footing. Arkansas may take their place.
The problem many LSU fans have is that they think we should be an elite SEC team but can't accept that even under Nicky Saban we never have been an elite team. We've been good, even great, but never elite. I don't know that we ever will be.
This post was edited on 10/25/10 at 6:25 pm
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:48 pm to pdxlsufan
We are about as elite as you can get in the SEC since 2001....
Nobody wants to see that decline back to mediocrity.
So.........
Nobody wants to see that decline back to mediocrity.
So.........
This post was edited on 10/25/10 at 5:53 pm
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:49 pm to pdxlsufan
there's no reason we shouldn't be. we have better everything than at any time in our history + a fertile recruiting base basically all to ourselves.
there's a reason LSU was constantly referred to as a sleeping giant program.
i think it's more accurate to say we've underperformed historically due to not being able to get out of our own way, either due to political interference, lack of resources applied, or just bad coaching decisions.
there's a reason LSU was constantly referred to as a sleeping giant program.
i think it's more accurate to say we've underperformed historically due to not being able to get out of our own way, either due to political interference, lack of resources applied, or just bad coaching decisions.
This post was edited on 10/25/10 at 5:52 pm
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:51 pm to pdxlsufan
It looks like you've defined "elite" as every team clearly above LSU, historically. You could easily include LSU in "elite" status using the very information you provided. It looks like LSU has the third-most success since the inception of the SECCG. But you just drew the line after two teams.
I guess we aren't in the top two, thanks for reminding.
I guess we aren't in the top two, thanks for reminding.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:52 pm to pdxlsufan
2 national championships, 4 BCS bowl total, 4 SEC west titles, 10 bowl berths, 4 top 5 finishes in 10 years and we arent elite?
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:55 pm to pdxlsufan
Do you honestly think that this decade Alabama has been elite over LSU?
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:56 pm to pdxlsufan
Question for you, if going to conference championship game a whole bunch of times and loosing more than winning makes Bama more elite than LSU, doesn't that make Ohio State and Oklahoma make more NCAA elite than Florida and Bama?
Posted on 10/25/10 at 5:59 pm to pdxlsufan
your entitled to your opinion, but i have a want to tell you that i dont agree with your accessment.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:06 pm to pdxlsufan
I just really cant understand your reasoning. We are tied for the most BCS National championships with florida, we also have the same amount of national titles as florida overall. If you want to look historically at the SEC then there is only one elite team, Alabama. If you want to look as SEC football this decade its
#1 LSU (4 BCS wins, 2 national titles
#2 Florida (3 BCS wins, 2 national titles
#3 Alabama (1 BCS win(2 appearances), 1 National title)
#1 LSU (4 BCS wins, 2 national titles
#2 Florida (3 BCS wins, 2 national titles
#3 Alabama (1 BCS win(2 appearances), 1 National title)
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:23 pm to pdxlsufan
Just based on recruiting rankings, we have elite talent. Why not an elite record?
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:24 pm to pdxlsufan
quote:
pdxlsufan
what about pre-SECCG? Florida didn't the the SEC title until freaking 1991. LSU won the damn SEC Championship several times prior to Florida winning 1. do you understand the word "never"?
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:27 pm to pdxlsufan
quote:
But have we ever been an elite SEC team? No.
Please name a more dominate, elite football program that existed over the 5-year span between 2003-2007 in the entire nation, much less one that existed in the SEC during that span. Don't tell me we have never been an elite SEC team.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:29 pm to pdxlsufan
Since 2001, there have been few, if any programs in the country as elite as LSU. Every game is on TV. We are in the hunt for every recruit. We have top notch facilities. We are highly ranked every year. Truth is, the national media can't wait for our staff to figure it out. LSU is loaded with talent, and they know it.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:52 pm to pdxlsufan
quote:
The problem many LSU fans have is that they think we should be an elite SEC team but can't accept that even under Nicky Saban we never have been an elite team. We've been good, even great, but never elite. I don't know that we ever will be.
We won a 100 games in 10 seasons...won 2 MNC's
That's Elite!
Our instate HS talent is Elite! Therefor LSU wil be an elite program...
Your measuring stick is off
Ask any HC in College football and ask them.."Do think LSU is an Elite football program?"
What do you think they will say?
Posted on 10/25/10 at 6:57 pm to pdxlsufan
I've stepped in deeper puddles than your analysis. And not just coming from a "homer", just at the massive holes in your reasoning.
You arbitrarily start since the inception of the SECCG in 92, which happened that the 90's were tough times for the Tigers. In contrast, we won the SEC Championship twice in the 80's.
By All Time rankings, (record, points,) LSU is second to Bama, UF is #5.LINK
By All Time record: Bama; UT; UGA; LSU; UF.
There just much much more to the SEC than you've looked at.
You arbitrarily start since the inception of the SECCG in 92, which happened that the 90's were tough times for the Tigers. In contrast, we won the SEC Championship twice in the 80's.
By All Time rankings, (record, points,) LSU is second to Bama, UF is #5.LINK
By All Time record: Bama; UT; UGA; LSU; UF.
There just much much more to the SEC than you've looked at.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 7:12 pm to pdxlsufan
If that's the case then,
Florida had not won an SEC title since the arrival of SOS in '91.
Alabama has had 5 losing season since 1997.
Tennessee has won 2 SEC titles since conference expansion.
Auburn has won the west once since conference expansion and has only been in the title game on 3 occassions.
Georgia hasn't been to the SEC title game but once in the last 7 seasons.
Arkansas has never won an SEC title since their arrival to the SEC in 1992.
Mississippi State has been to two SEC title games and is 0-2.
UK, SC, Ole Miss, and Vandy have not set foot in Atlanta.
My point is that if LSU is NOT an "elite" SEC program, then really only Bama is if you wanna just count titles and legends and bullshite past traditions. But in the last 20 years, LSU is as elite as any of them.
Florida had not won an SEC title since the arrival of SOS in '91.
Alabama has had 5 losing season since 1997.
Tennessee has won 2 SEC titles since conference expansion.
Auburn has won the west once since conference expansion and has only been in the title game on 3 occassions.
Georgia hasn't been to the SEC title game but once in the last 7 seasons.
Arkansas has never won an SEC title since their arrival to the SEC in 1992.
Mississippi State has been to two SEC title games and is 0-2.
UK, SC, Ole Miss, and Vandy have not set foot in Atlanta.
My point is that if LSU is NOT an "elite" SEC program, then really only Bama is if you wanna just count titles and legends and bullshite past traditions. But in the last 20 years, LSU is as elite as any of them.
Posted on 10/25/10 at 7:30 pm to pdxlsufan
quote:
Florida is 7-3 in the SECCG.
Bama is 3-4 in the SECCG.
Tennessee is 2-3 in the SECG.
LSU is 3-1 in the SECG.
Georgia is 2-1 in the SECG.
Auburn is 1-2 in the SECG.
Arky is 0-3 in the SECG.
Miss State is 0-1 in the SECG.
UK, SC, Vandy & Ole Miss have never been to SECG.
Using your data, LSU has the best winning percentage when getting to the SECCG. Plus two BCS Championships in 4 years.
That's not elite in your eyes?
FAIL
Posted on 10/25/10 at 7:34 pm to pdxlsufan
Please define "elite". Then tell me how many times since 2001 that LSU has been the Western champion or co-champion.
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