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Started By
Message
re: QB Play: NOT the Major Problem w/the Offense (statistical support)
Posted on 4/20/10 at 7:58 pm to OBUDan
Posted on 4/20/10 at 7:58 pm to OBUDan
quote:
There are several major reasons for why our offense was a walking disaster last season, but, despite what most believe, QB isn't the major problem.
This is what I've been saying for a long time. Still, I really don't understand how you could demonstrate such a thing statistically.
1
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:00 pm to OBUDan
Thx OBUDan...great stuff. Geaux Tigahs!
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:01 pm to matt314
quote:
Tearing down Flynn's accomplishments to build up JJ is a curious exercise. It will eventually be measured by the sum of their careers, not by some silly statistical analysis.
+1
And this was one of the silliest statistical analyses I've ever seen on the Rant, which is saying something.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:07 pm to thanksjhester
quote:
Flynn didnt get sacked 9 million times either
just a few less than jefferson did actually
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:09 pm to GeauxBandits
quote:
I don't think anyone believes Jefferson is anything better than a good/average quarterback right now, but he may get there yet.
Exactly. If he continues the natural course (most players improve over time) then he should be perfectly capable.
quote:
The biggest source of our woes is the running game, which has been hampered by the O-Line and somewhat by Crowton. It's unfair to lump all of our offensive troubles on Jefferson. He's made plenty of mistakes, to be sure, but I think he still has a lot of untapped potential.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:10 pm to OBUDan
So, being obsessed with upcoming draft, I've even ventured into '12, '13, and as sad as it is, even '14 mock drafts. While they are obviously only speculation, they're fun to look at. The few 2012 draft rankings had JJ as the 10th best QB in the class. That's pretty good, IMO. 
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:11 pm to matt314
quote:I don't think that is what he was trying to do. I think the point of his stat breakdown was to show the main difference between the 07 offense and the 09 offense was the running game which led to a lack of offensive plays and overall production. I think he was trying to show that JJ could be the "manager" type QB we need to win it he gets some run support. He used Flynn as the measuring stick because that was our last successfull QB and season. I don't think anything he posted was intended to tear down Flynn. JMHO.
Tearing down Flynn's accomplishments to build up JJ is a curious exercise
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:13 pm to matt314
quote:
Flynn was also the acknowledged leader of that '07 team, which was a team full of leadership types. Ask the players.
Naw, Hester/Dorsey were the leaders.
Even still, you can't possible account for that in any sort of calculable way.
quote:
Tearing down Flynn's accomplishments to build up JJ is a curious exercise.
Not tearing him down. I'm using a highly esteemed QB compared to a not so highly esteemed QB to illustrate the minimal differences between the two.
Flynn was a very good QB for LSU.
quote:
He's at his best when he has to be. A real competitor. That's why he wins all those tournaments. Winning the big ones over the long term is the measure.
That's a lot of subjective opinion. It's impossible to put all wins/losses upon any single player in football. Very different from tennis where it comes down to a man-to-man battle.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:14 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
Still, I really don't understand how you could demonstrate such a thing statistically.
It's definitely flawed as all statistical cases are.
But I did my best to compare 2 players in as close as situations as possible.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:15 pm to Doc Fenton
quote:
And this was one of the silliest statistical analyses I've ever seen on the Rant, which is saying something.
How so?
I'm open to criticisms.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:16 pm to XbengalTiger
quote:
I don't think that is what he was trying to do. I think the point of his stat breakdown was to show the main difference between the 07 offense and the 09 offense was the running game which led to a lack of offensive plays and overall production. I think he was trying to show that JJ could be the "manager" type QB we need to win it he gets some run support. He used Flynn as the measuring stick because that was our last successfull QB and season. I don't think anything he posted was intended to tear down Flynn. JMHO.
Yes, exactly. Thanks
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:16 pm to OBUDan
Well, I will give you this, that's the first tennis reference I've seen on the Rant in quite a while. 
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:21 pm to matt314
quote:
Tearing down Flynn's accomplishments to build up JJ is a curious exercise.
dan you are infactuated with this.
I will say I appreciate your efforts, but at the end of the day, your post doesnt make JJ an ounce better than he was the minute before you posted.
As I told you before nothing about MF or 2007 is gonna help JJ this coming season.
But if it makes you feel better, got you a couple high-fives from like caliber thinking LSU fans then congrats.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:21 pm to Doc Fenton
So what's silly?
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:24 pm to OBUDan
Good Post
It sucks we needed someone to do all that work to show some idiots that the OL was the major weakness last year.
It sucks we needed someone to do all that work to show some idiots that the OL was the major weakness last year.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:27 pm to OBUDan
quote:
Flynn put up higher yardage totals but LSU typically ran more plays.
Maybe those seven or eight more third down conversions per game were more important than you admitted.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:30 pm to Doc Fenton
OBUDan:
Congrats for getting the point in using stats to meaningfully evaluate individual performance in a team game.
The key word is subjective, and your evaluation uses so many assumptions about the play of the other 10 guys that's all it can ever be. What I've watched on many Saturdays in the last few years subjectively tells me that Flynn was a much better QB at LSU than JJ has ever been yet.
But that's just me. And Hester himself would tell you that Flynn was the leader of that offensive unit, and that takes nothing away from Hester. And stating he was not is belittling Flynn's accomplishments with a subjective opinion, even if popular. Jacob has become a bit of a saint around these parts.
quote:
That's a lot of subjective opinion. It's impossible to put all wins/losses upon any single player in football. Very different from tennis where it comes down to a man-to-man battle.
Congrats for getting the point in using stats to meaningfully evaluate individual performance in a team game.
The key word is subjective, and your evaluation uses so many assumptions about the play of the other 10 guys that's all it can ever be. What I've watched on many Saturdays in the last few years subjectively tells me that Flynn was a much better QB at LSU than JJ has ever been yet.
But that's just me. And Hester himself would tell you that Flynn was the leader of that offensive unit, and that takes nothing away from Hester. And stating he was not is belittling Flynn's accomplishments with a subjective opinion, even if popular. Jacob has become a bit of a saint around these parts.
This post was edited on 4/20/10 at 8:34 pm
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:34 pm to OBUDan
First, you've conveniently taken out all statistics relating to total offensive production. Second, you cite defensive statistics without considering SOS. Third, you make no mention of the injuries to LSU's 3 most hyped players for 2007: Will Arnold, Early Doucet, and Flynn himself. Fourth, you act as if Flynn was just some lucky beneficiary of a better running game, when in fact the very best thing he did as a QB was ... operate the running game. His long passing ability was a bonus.
I mean, obviously, JJ in 2009 wasn't operating anywhere near Flynn's level in 2007. You might as well cite pass completion status and ask, "Well, given these stats, JJ compares favorable to JR's sophomore year, so why can't JJ become a #1 NFL pick as well?"
It's not wrong. It's just silly. You can't decipher anything from it at all.
I mean, obviously, JJ in 2009 wasn't operating anywhere near Flynn's level in 2007. You might as well cite pass completion status and ask, "Well, given these stats, JJ compares favorable to JR's sophomore year, so why can't JJ become a #1 NFL pick as well?"
It's not wrong. It's just silly. You can't decipher anything from it at all.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:36 pm to roygu
quote:
Maybe those seven or eight more third down conversions per game were more important than you admitted.
They definitely were.
Unfortunately, they were converted by the running game, not the passing game.
Posted on 4/20/10 at 8:38 pm to TIGRLEE
quote:
As I told you before nothing about MF or 2007 is gonna help JJ this coming season.
I don't see what "helping" JJ has anything to do with what I was saying.
My point was simple, the main problem with our offense in 2009 was lack of a potent running attack, not quarterback play.
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