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Started By
Message
Fundamentals are crucial
Posted on 12/23/09 at 8:53 am
Posted on 12/23/09 at 8:53 am
First, I like Les and want to see things improve.
Now, considering the scary "right foot" comments from Gonzo, I offer these thoughts:
I believe the key to Saban's success at Bama has been his attention to detail, specifically teaching fundamentals. He has intensely drilled in their minds the correct way to execute and this is what I have witnessed watching Bama this year.......a thing of coach's beauty.
I get the distinct feeling this is where Les et al (sans Chavis) have dropped the ball. Without crisp execution of the fundamentals, play is sloppy and disorganized.
The game plans on offense have been suspect, but sloppy execution greatly exacerbates this.
The lack of fundamental training is not just on McCarthy but all of them....it is Les' job to push his position guys. Oline execution is directly related to fundamentals. Even with superior talent, if an olineman does not execute properly he is beat. I have witnessed issues all season with them picking up blitzes/stunts correctly.......not necessarily recognizing them, but physically adjusting to them to stop the penetration and THIS is due to lack of fundamental training. I truly believe Stud is a good coach but they have all lacked in the fundamental realm.
Also, what makes practices extra tough is the basic drills and performing them over and over to get proper form/execution.......when you are placating/befriending young men, this may get pushed to the wayside. Crisp execution first....popularity second. Just a guess.
Now, considering the scary "right foot" comments from Gonzo, I offer these thoughts:
I believe the key to Saban's success at Bama has been his attention to detail, specifically teaching fundamentals. He has intensely drilled in their minds the correct way to execute and this is what I have witnessed watching Bama this year.......a thing of coach's beauty.
I get the distinct feeling this is where Les et al (sans Chavis) have dropped the ball. Without crisp execution of the fundamentals, play is sloppy and disorganized.
The game plans on offense have been suspect, but sloppy execution greatly exacerbates this.
The lack of fundamental training is not just on McCarthy but all of them....it is Les' job to push his position guys. Oline execution is directly related to fundamentals. Even with superior talent, if an olineman does not execute properly he is beat. I have witnessed issues all season with them picking up blitzes/stunts correctly.......not necessarily recognizing them, but physically adjusting to them to stop the penetration and THIS is due to lack of fundamental training. I truly believe Stud is a good coach but they have all lacked in the fundamental realm.
Also, what makes practices extra tough is the basic drills and performing them over and over to get proper form/execution.......when you are placating/befriending young men, this may get pushed to the wayside. Crisp execution first....popularity second. Just a guess.
12
Posted on 12/23/09 at 9:25 am to CharlesLSU
quote:I've been away-what was this about?
Now, considering the scary "right foot" comments from Gonzo,
Posted on 12/23/09 at 9:28 am to AlxTgr
quote:
I've been away-what was this about?
It took Gonzo all of ONE practice to see that our WRs were lining their feet up incorrectly at the line of scrimmage. He made one fundamental adjustment and supposedly has our guys getting off the ball quicker.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 9:32 am to CharlesLSU
quote:
I believe the key to Saban's success at Bama has been his attention to detail
Give it dude, Saban don't coach here anymore and never will. CM is the head coach, support the program and support the coaches and staff here.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 9:34 am to PHXTigers
Dude, Charles is far from some Saban jock-sniffer. He's one of the more astute posters regarding fundamentals and technique. There was nothing in his post that was mindless Miles bashing, it was a good conversation starter with legit and specific criticisms.
I like Miles, but I think his comments were pretty spot on.
I like Miles, but I think his comments were pretty spot on.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 9:35 am to PHXTigers
quote:
Give it dude, Saban don't coach here anymore and never will. CM is the head coach, support the program and support the coaches and staff here
Did you read his post? He made some constructive comments and is a Miles supporter.
Learn to read...
Posted on 12/23/09 at 9:40 am to CharlesLSU
quote:
Fundamentals are crucial
coach told me to shoot less threes. frick that. fundamentals dont get you laid.
- Downtown Devin Brown
Posted on 12/23/09 at 9:47 am to PHXTigers
quote:
Give it dude, Saban don't coach here anymore and never will. CM is the head coach, support the program and support the coaches and staff here.
This is an inappropriate reaction to the poster you're bad-mouthing. It's what makes Saban (with whom LSU fans have experience) as well as most, if not all, other highly successful college coaches as good as they are. You can't assume that a bunch of teenagers who have excelled on raw talent differential are going to teach themselves how to compete at the top college level. Maybe one high school coach in 100 teaches fundamentals the way Saban, Meyer, Bowden and others do. They're too busy just getting half their players to count to 3. Pointing out that Saban excels at this and that the LSU staff of the last couple of years appear not to have been so effective is spot on.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:05 am to Baloo
quote:
Dude, Charles is far from some Saban jock-sniffer. He's one of the more astute posters regarding fundamentals and technique. There was nothing in his post that was mindless Miles bashing, it was a good conversation starter with legit and specific criticisms.
I like Miles, but I think his comments were pretty spot on.
I agree. I love how anyone who points out Miles's weaknesses, relative to our best competition (Saban & Alabama), immediate gets their head torn off as being a traitor. Sometimes you rantards just need to take comments at face value.
I've been saying the same thing since Miles got here. His teams are just not as fundamentally sound as they need to be....and it is starting to catch up with him.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:06 am to Housplants
Baloo/ny/TW, thanks. Typical knee-jerk reactions from kids who have no fricking clue as to what the college game entails.
To PH & Hous, my blood runs far more PnG than yours. I love LSU first. I admire and support Miles second. Criticism comes with the job especially considering the sloppy play and recent comments from a new coach. Take that chip off your shoulder.
I don't hate Saban like many jaded Tigers do, rather and damn glad he stopped by long enough to build our foundation. I believe him to be the finest coach in college football as evidenced by his team's crisp play as well as they way they conduct themselves with the media. I have spoken regularly with his former players at LSU, and the ones I have spoken with love, respect, and admire him.
When I pose legit topics, they are meant to be discussed with an adult tone.
If you disagree or become jaded with me, then move on.
To PH & Hous, my blood runs far more PnG than yours. I love LSU first. I admire and support Miles second. Criticism comes with the job especially considering the sloppy play and recent comments from a new coach. Take that chip off your shoulder.
I don't hate Saban like many jaded Tigers do, rather and damn glad he stopped by long enough to build our foundation. I believe him to be the finest coach in college football as evidenced by his team's crisp play as well as they way they conduct themselves with the media. I have spoken regularly with his former players at LSU, and the ones I have spoken with love, respect, and admire him.
When I pose legit topics, they are meant to be discussed with an adult tone.
If you disagree or become jaded with me, then move on.
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 10:08 am
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:07 am to CharlesLSU
quote:Agree. Les coaches on "emotion" and "want". His coaching style revolves less around fundamentals and more about how much you love the game. Certainly there is room for love of the game, but Saban is fundamentally sound and X's and O's sharp. Miles is emotionally connected to his team and gets players to care about the program, but is not fundamentally sound nor attentive to detail.
get the distinct feeling this is where Les et al (sans Chavis) have dropped the ball. Without crisp execution of the fundamentals, play is sloppy and disorganized.
Both coaches could improve by incorporating a little of both into their philosophies, although Saban, by virtue of being process oriented and not so emotionally invested, gets better results over the long haul because emotions tend to wane over time, where fundamentals are a constant and apply for every game and every situation..
Miles gets short term results by 'caring more' and getting the players to be emotional and "up" for a big game ("let's play for our school"), but then suffers big letdowns over seasons and particularly games where the team loses or looks bad because the little things were not very fundamentally sound.
Saban = all about business- winning, and beating the man in front of you, detail and process oriented. Learn from your mistakes and get better.
Miles = all about emotions- love your school, the game, and your teammates, play for them and don't worry about the little things, ignore criticism just go out there and play, don't worry about your mistakes.
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 10:13 am
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:18 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
Saban = all about business- winning, and beating the man in front of you, detail and process oriented. Learn from your mistakes and get better.
Truth.
quote:
Miles = all about emotions- love your school, the game, and your teammates, play for them and don't worry about the little things, ignore criticism just go out there and play, don't worry about your mistakes.
Biased bullshite.
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 10:20 am
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:22 am to Tiger_n_ATL
I’m not sure we can talk about Saban’s “long term results” at any program considering he’s never stuck around long enough for there to be long term results. It’s speculation as to whether he will or won’t have long term results at Bama. I get the feeling he likes to build things but gets bored with sustaining success. If he stays at Bama, and there’s no reason to think he won’t stay, it will be interesting to see what happens long term.
As for Miles, I think he relies heavily on his positional coaches. Miles is a CEO type coach, who delegates authority to his subordinates. And that can lead to problems, as seen last season. I don’t think it’s that Miles wants to be a friend first, I think it’s that he is a big picture guy and he leaves details to his assistants. He absolutely needs top assistants, but he’s the kind of coach who attracts top assistants given the free hand they are given.
As for Miles, I think he relies heavily on his positional coaches. Miles is a CEO type coach, who delegates authority to his subordinates. And that can lead to problems, as seen last season. I don’t think it’s that Miles wants to be a friend first, I think it’s that he is a big picture guy and he leaves details to his assistants. He absolutely needs top assistants, but he’s the kind of coach who attracts top assistants given the free hand they are given.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:23 am to CharlesLSU
quote:
Now, considering the scary "right foot" comments from Gonzo, I offer these thoughts:
I don't disagree with your comments at all, but I wouldn't read too much into the "right foot" comment...every coach has little technical details they believe are important. Another WR coach could come in tomorrow and say that he had to fix how the receivers planted for their cuts. New coaches always bring their own set of biases in and always "fix" something.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:25 am to nycajun
quote:bullshite comment with no substance.
Biased bullshite.
Miles pats players on the back when they make crucial mistakes, allows coaches to continue poor coaching techniques well after it's been recognized even by the non experts that errors are being made, and continually props up players and coaches in the media when it's clear to everyone that heads need to roll.
Saban used these things as "teachable moments" both to the fanbase and the players, he knew how to use the media and punishment to work to his advantage.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:29 am to Baloo
quote:
he’s the kind of coach who attracts top assistants given the free hand they are given.
Even a CEO type coach needs to be a hardass with his direct reports (i.e., the coordinators) as well as with the key staff (i.e., the position coaches). I think Miles has the talent and the personality to succeed long-term, and is learning that he needs to revise his approach in a place like LSU, and is becoming more demanding as time goes on. I just hope it isn't wishful thinking.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:31 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
Miles pats players on the back when they make crucial mistakes, allows coaches to continue poor coaching techniques well after it's been recognized even by the non experts that errors are being made, and continually props up players and coaches in the media when it's clear to everyone that heads need to roll.
Saban used these things as "teachable moments" both to the fanbase and the players, he knew how to use the media and punishment to work to his advantage.
Each coach has his own style for dealing with players. You possibly cannot know how Miles deals with them when the camera is not on him or them.
It is illogical to expect every coach to have the same mode of execution.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:33 am to CalTiger
quote:That was the point of my post.
Each coach has his own style for dealing with players.
quote:I never claimed to, I was just making an observation.
You possibly cannot know how Miles deals with them when the camera is not on him or them.
quote:I don't.
It is illogical to expect every coach to have the same mode of execution.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:34 am to Tiger_n_ATL
quote:
and continually props up players and coaches in the media when it's clear to everyone that heads need to roll.
So you would like him to throw players and coaches under the bus? You should know by now Miles just won't do that.
Posted on 12/23/09 at 10:35 am to nycajun
quote:
Even a CEO type coach needs to be a hardass with his direct reports (i.e., the coordinators) as well as with the key staff (i.e., the position coaches). I think Miles has the talent and the personality to succeed long-term, and is learning that he needs to revise his approach in a place like LSU, and is becoming more demanding as time goes on.
I agree.
I base my points primarily on actual play. I am aware that Miles is quite private about managing his house, thus I am careful not to base subjective/conjecture on his interviews and sideline demeanor.
Again, I really like Miles and can see him re-establishing himself, but it is appropriate to contrast him with his new primary competitor in the chase for the West.
The play speaks for itself. It is sloppy and disorganized more than it is not. This goes back to fundamentals and repetition.....hard work.
This post was edited on 12/23/09 at 10:38 am
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