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Message
Talent???? I just dont see it..........
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:23 am
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:23 am
I keep hearing about all the "talent" LSU has, and that we are one of the most "talented" teams in the country. Then people extrapoliate from there and say we must have poor coaching etc.
I assume the talent people are speaking of is coming from the stars our recruits have. But in reality here is what we have:
Our best group is suppose to be our receivers - well, talent here should be the ability to catch the ball, block, run routes properly, run the correct routes, and line up correctly. LaFell drops 2-3 passes per game with should automatically discredit him. TT costs us at least one game last year running the wrong route and a pick 6. TT has lined up incorrectly numberous times this year (and last).
However, next year with RR and TT with another year to learn how to line up and run the correct routes - maybe next year we will have some talent here.
QB - runs B, throws B, decision making D. Average at best, maybe a little better next year, but again overly talented? no.
OL - D at best, dont see the talent.
I could keep on, but again, I'm just tired of hearing people say LSU has all this talent and I dont see it. Maybe we're simply just not that good.
Dont mean to be a negatiger, I am just trying to be realistic.
I assume the talent people are speaking of is coming from the stars our recruits have. But in reality here is what we have:
Our best group is suppose to be our receivers - well, talent here should be the ability to catch the ball, block, run routes properly, run the correct routes, and line up correctly. LaFell drops 2-3 passes per game with should automatically discredit him. TT costs us at least one game last year running the wrong route and a pick 6. TT has lined up incorrectly numberous times this year (and last).
However, next year with RR and TT with another year to learn how to line up and run the correct routes - maybe next year we will have some talent here.
QB - runs B, throws B, decision making D. Average at best, maybe a little better next year, but again overly talented? no.
OL - D at best, dont see the talent.
I could keep on, but again, I'm just tired of hearing people say LSU has all this talent and I dont see it. Maybe we're simply just not that good.
Dont mean to be a negatiger, I am just trying to be realistic.
9
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:24 am to jeffsdad
quote:
OL - D at best, dont see the talent.
Watch OU, A&M, and Arkansas on Saturday. That's where it all went.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:25 am to jeffsdad
I am with you, but is it
"Lacking of Talent", or "Lacking in Talent Development"
it seems as if we recruit well.
"Lacking of Talent", or "Lacking in Talent Development"
it seems as if we recruit well.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:27 am to PiscesTiger
OU got some beasts on the line. I hope to find out what teams have the largest OL this weekend and see if there are any correlations to the number of victories. Any yes, I know it takes more than just size.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:29 am to jeffsdad
OU has one of ours. I wish we had had some discipline procedures to ensure the players we recruit don't act like ghouls, but oh well now...
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:29 am to jeffsdad
Wasn't there a post on here a while back that listed all the recruits that we signed that are no longer on the team?? It was quite a large number. Big deal to be ranked in the top 5 in Feb if a large number of those players never see the field.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:30 am to rbdallas
Lack of development to this level of play, not a talent problem. Maybe sticking with upperclassmen instead of best talent, and coaching the kids up. 
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:31 am to jeffsdad
You are on to something. We recruited pretty well, but some of who we signed are no longer on the team. I'm sorry, but you can't score a LSU TD, block or make a tackle if you are starting for OU, ARK or Jacksonville St.
Then there are positions we haven't recruited that well. Last year we had opportunities on two 5 * RBs and came away with neither. One ran for around 100 yrds against UT last night. I don't think we have done that well year in and year out on the OL and DL. The DL just doesn't look the same with out Wroton, Hill, Williams or Dorsey, Jackson, Green type players.
Then there are positions we haven't recruited that well. Last year we had opportunities on two 5 * RBs and came away with neither. One ran for around 100 yrds against UT last night. I don't think we have done that well year in and year out on the OL and DL. The DL just doesn't look the same with out Wroton, Hill, Williams or Dorsey, Jackson, Green type players.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:32 am to kptiger
I posted this in another thread but I found it interesting.
LSU
2006 Class:
14 4/5* players and 6 no longer on team
2007 Class:
21 4/5* players and 8 no longer on team
2008 Class:
13 4/5* players and all of those are still on team
Florida:
2006 Class:
21 4/5* players and 5 no longer on team
2007 Class:
20 4/5* players and 2 no longer on team
2008 Class:
16 4/5* players and all still on team
So just looking at these 2 teams cause this is time consuming.
LSU 48 players rated 4* or 5* and 14 are no longer on team
Florida 57 players rated 4* or 5* and 7 no longer on the team.
LSU has lost a lot of that "talent" that gave us those high Recruiting rankings over last few years.
LSU
2006 Class:
14 4/5* players and 6 no longer on team
2007 Class:
21 4/5* players and 8 no longer on team
2008 Class:
13 4/5* players and all of those are still on team
Florida:
2006 Class:
21 4/5* players and 5 no longer on team
2007 Class:
20 4/5* players and 2 no longer on team
2008 Class:
16 4/5* players and all still on team
So just looking at these 2 teams cause this is time consuming.
LSU 48 players rated 4* or 5* and 14 are no longer on team
Florida 57 players rated 4* or 5* and 7 no longer on the team.
LSU has lost a lot of that "talent" that gave us those high Recruiting rankings over last few years.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:33 am to jeffsdad
quote:
QB - runs B, throws B, decision making D. Average at best, maybe a little better next year, but again overly talented? no.
I think with this year's experience Jefferson WILL be better next year. He may never be a Heisman candidate, but I believe he has the physical skill to be a good QB for our offense. A lot of people have flat out said JJ is brainless, but I disagree. Seems to me he's improved over the year, and I think he'll prove to have perfectly adequate football smarts, which we'll see more of next year.
The one thing I hope for next year regarding QB is the development of Garret. There I said it: development. I agree we've done a poor job of this recently, and we need someone who can change things. Like a new OC.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:34 am to jeffsdad
I know what you are getting at, we are recruiting very talented players, but all players need to develop, learn their position, be coached up, etc... And I just don't see the coaching staff doing a good job of that, Shepard was the number 1 dual threat QB in the nation last year, not to mention he came to campus early to learn the offense, and we haven't even designed any passing plays for him?
Tolliver was a 5*, and one of the best WR prospects in his class, Randle is another 5* and was the best WR prospect last year, and Williams was a 5* RB in his class, not to mention Holliday being the fastest players in college football, and we STILL have the worst offense in the SEC? When you have this many playmakers, there is no excuse to be last in the conference.
I think a main factor is a poor job of the coaches to utilize the talent. Whoever comes in as OC next year will hopefully find ways to use our talent, and then stick with what is working.
Tolliver was a 5*, and one of the best WR prospects in his class, Randle is another 5* and was the best WR prospect last year, and Williams was a 5* RB in his class, not to mention Holliday being the fastest players in college football, and we STILL have the worst offense in the SEC? When you have this many playmakers, there is no excuse to be last in the conference.
I think a main factor is a poor job of the coaches to utilize the talent. Whoever comes in as OC next year will hopefully find ways to use our talent, and then stick with what is working.
This post was edited on 11/27/09 at 7:36 am
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:35 am to SOL
Russell Shepard was regarded as maybe the most "talented" player in the country last year. Is he really that talented?
We don't know because he hasn't been on the field enough to tell.
We don't know because he hasn't been on the field enough to tell.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:38 am to PICKer
quote:
I think a main factor is a poor job of the coaches to utilize the talent. Whoever comes in as OC next year will hopefully find ways to use our talent, and then stick with what is working.
Ding! Ding!
I have been bitching about this for a while.
It seems as if we try to force plays onto players, rather than develop THEIR talent onto our style.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:50 am to jeffsdad
quote:
talent here should be the ability to catch the ball, block, run routes properly, run the correct routes, and line up correctly.
I think you're confusing talent with skills. When most people talk about a talented recruit, they are talking about his athleticism - he is quicker, stonger, faster, and more agile than most other guys his same size. That is something innate and can be maximized with strength and conditioning.
The ability to run routes, know where you're supposed to be, and block, is something that needs to be coached. It is a fact that LSU has some tremendous atheletes- as good or nearly as good as any in the country. For whatever reason, they haven't put it all together when they play.
And you're being overly harsh on our receivers. TT has never cost us a game on his own this year. There have been breakdowns all around.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 7:57 am to Cussian
quote:
I think you're confusing talent with skills.
Talent =
having the ability to perform a set of skills
Skills differ based on "position"
Skills can be taught if the talent(ability) exists
teaching skills = developing talent.
IMO
Posted on 11/27/09 at 8:07 am to jeffsdad
quote:
TT has lined up incorrectly numberous times this year
You would too. Have you seen the overall confusion on the field? THAT"S COACHING.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 8:15 am to rbdallas
quote:
Talent =
having the ability to perform a set of skills
I agree with you. That's what talent should mean. But when most people say the Tigers are talented and they should be doing better, they really mean athleticism. You can't coach athleticism. A player either is or isn't faster and more agile than the next guy.
The problems the OP mentioned were things that can be improved by coaching.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 8:55 am to jeffsdad
There are so many factors at play here....is our talent legit as it goes from high school to college? is our talent being bettered once it gets here? is there too much attrition?
I don't claim to have all the answers, but I do recall the end of the Dinardo era when, in his last season, we had managed only one win in 10 games....one measley win....he was fired and we let Hal Hunter coach the last game- the Arkansas game of course. The Hogs had a good season going and were preparing to go to the Cotton Bowl, I believe. We came out with that one win team and blasted them.
What am I saying? Sometimes a team has more talent on it than you realize. Especially at a program like LSU. For whatever reason...coaching, development, a team simply giving up on a coach- it just doesn't translate to the field. I've thought of that season lately. Thank goodness we have 8 wins and not 1. But there may be parallels.
I don't claim to have all the answers, but I do recall the end of the Dinardo era when, in his last season, we had managed only one win in 10 games....one measley win....he was fired and we let Hal Hunter coach the last game- the Arkansas game of course. The Hogs had a good season going and were preparing to go to the Cotton Bowl, I believe. We came out with that one win team and blasted them.
What am I saying? Sometimes a team has more talent on it than you realize. Especially at a program like LSU. For whatever reason...coaching, development, a team simply giving up on a coach- it just doesn't translate to the field. I've thought of that season lately. Thank goodness we have 8 wins and not 1. But there may be parallels.
This post was edited on 11/27/09 at 9:33 am
Posted on 11/27/09 at 9:28 am to geauxjo
quote:
There are so many factors at play here....is our talent legit as it goes from high school to college? is our talent being bettered once it gets here? is there too much attrition?
but is that talent not rated by outside sources ???
which, even if wrong, would be equally wrong for all schools ???
or is it that other schools/coaches are able to look beyond the "rating" and do a better job of actually evaluating the "potential" of the players for themselves.
sometimes I think that some coaches use the PUBLISHED recruiting ratings to boost their ability as a recruiter, whether the talent actually exists or not.
Posted on 11/27/09 at 9:30 am to PiscesTiger
These kids are great in high school and then suddenly suck in college?
I dont think so.
I dont think so.
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