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re: Another train derailment

Posted on 4/28/24 at 7:20 pm to
Posted by BuckyCheese
Member since Jan 2015
52932 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 7:20 pm to
Yeah, that would be signal department. Been a big increase in the number of towers and such over the years. Especially recently with all the PTC bullshite.
Posted by beaux duke
Member since Oct 2023
564 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 7:38 pm to
Towers are towers, esp in plain states like Kansas. If you can strap some antennas, microwave hops or whatever else on them there's money to be made and some jackass like me has to climb up them, and someone else has to be there if I need rescuing
Send me an email if you want to talk shop
This post was edited on 4/28/24 at 7:42 pm
Posted by FreedomBarefoot
42° parallel
Member since Aug 2016
1859 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 8:52 pm to
Pete already handled the problem. LOL

I don't if these new laws were implemented before the 3 derailments discussed in this thread.

Tuesday, April 2, 2024

Biden-Harris Administration Announces Final Rule on Train Crew Size Safety Requirements to Improve Rail Safety
https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-administration-announces-final-rule-train-crew-size-safety-requirements

quote:

WASHINGTON – Today, as part of the Biden-Harris Administration’s ongoing efforts to strengthen rail safety and hold railroads accountable, Secretary Pete Buttigieg announced that the U.S. Department of Transportation’s Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) has issued a final rule establishing minimum safety requirements for the size of train crews. The new rule enhances safety in the rail industry by generally requiring and emphasizing the importance and necessity of a second crewmember on all trains.

“Common sense tells us that large freight trains, some of which can be over three miles long, should have at least two crew members on board - and now there’s a federal regulation in place to ensure trains are safely staffed,” said U.S. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. “This rule requiring safe train crew sizes is long overdue, and we are proud to deliver this change that will make workers, passengers, and communities safer.”


How it got to Pete's desk
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/4062966-norfolk-southern-engineer-raised-concerns-ahead-of-ohio-derailment/amp/

quote:

A Norfolk Southern engineer expressed concerns to a supervisor about the length of the train that would later derail in East Palestine, Ohio, but the reservations went unaddressed, according to the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).

The NTSB report released Thursday said the engineer from Decatur, Ill., expressed the concerns to the yardmaster but was told, “Well, this is what they [Norfolk Southern] want.
The engineer reportedly told investigators that “if you talk to the manager, they said this train was 100 percent rule compliant,” adding, “To me, in my opinion, you got 32 percent of the weight on the headend.”

“Twenty percent in the middle and 40 percent weight on the rearend,” they continued. “So, to me, that’s why we reported that to the yardmaster and like I said, this is what they want.”


https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/business/railroads-warned-about-the-problems-long-trains-can-cause/amp/

quote:

Currently, there aren’t any restrictions on train length but members of Congress and state lawmakers in at least six states have proposed establishing limits particularly in the wake of the fiery Feb. 3 Norfolk Southern derailment in Ohio. The major freight railroads have pushed back against that idea because they have increasingly come to rely on longer trains to help them move cargo with fewer crews and mechanics as they overhauled their operations over the past six years. Union Pacific CEO Lance Fritz said recently that he doesn’t think accident data shows that long trains are riskier.

But the Federal Railroad Administration cited three derailments involving trains longer than 12,250 feet (3,734 meters) where train length was a factor in its advisory. That agency and the National Academies of Sciences are both in the middle of studying the impact of long trains, and they expect to issue reports next year on whether they are a problem.

The derailments mentioned as examples of the problems that can accompany long trains were in Springfield, Ohio, in March; in Ravenna, Ohio, last November; and in Rockwell, Iowa, in March 2022. In each of those cases, the way cars in different parts of the train pulled and pushed against each other contributed to the derailments.

This latest advisory follows one earlier this month that directed railroads to re-examine the way they assemble their trains to minimize those kind of forces that often come into play as a train goes over hills and around corners. Parts of a train can be pulling forward going up a hill while the middle or back of the train pushes against the rest of the cars while going down a hill.

The Federal Railroad Administration said that in addition to the concerns about derailments, long trains can block crossings for extended periods of time. When crossings are blocked, firefighters, police and ambulance drivers may be delayed in getting someone the help that they need, and pedestrians may risk their lives by crawling under or across stopped trains that could start moving without warning.

The states proposing limits on train size this year include Arizona, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Nevada and Washington.



Posted by beaux duke
Member since Oct 2023
564 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:03 pm to
The 3 week old railway law?
No, it likely hasn't seen national implementation
Posted by BuckyCheese
Member since Jan 2015
52932 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:09 pm to
quote:

“To me, in my opinion, you got 32 percent of the weight on the headend.”

“Twenty percent in the middle and 40 percent weight on the rearend,” they continued. “So, to me, that’s why we reported that to the yardmaster and like I said, this is what they want.”


Sounds like a shitty engineer. I ran a whole lot worse.

Anyway, train makeup had nothing to do with East Palestine. An axle being sawed off due to a failed bearing derailed the train.
Posted by FreedomBarefoot
42° parallel
Member since Aug 2016
1859 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:24 pm to
quote:

Anyway, train makeup had nothing to do with East Palestine. An axle being sawed off due to a failed bearing derailed the train.


When it happened, they showed the fire from the bearing Twenty miles before it derailed.
Is there a way to know if something was wrong if your the conductor or engineer?
Posted by ChestRockwell
In the heart of horse country
Member since Jul 2021
4159 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:30 pm to
Is he he still on his maternity leave?
Posted by BuckyCheese
Member since Jan 2015
52932 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:31 pm to
Trackside defect detector should have picked it up. As I recall they went over one not far from the derailment.

Like anything manmade, they can fail. They have changed the rules for spacing of detectors I believe shortening the distance between them.

I once had the dispatcher call me saying a policeman had called in that I had a car on fire. Stopped the train and the conductor went back to check the train. He could feel the heat from two car lengths away due to the brakes being stuck on the car. The brake shoes were gone by this point.

We had gone over a detector about 3 miles before the cop saw the car.

Detector fail.
This post was edited on 4/28/24 at 9:32 pm
Posted by FreedomBarefoot
42° parallel
Member since Aug 2016
1859 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:41 pm to
That was close call. Glad nothing went bad, but the detector.
Posted by Liberator
Revelation 20:10-12
Member since Jul 2020
9071 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:49 pm to
quote:

Complex system wont survive the competency crisis


Or surviving a now apparently regularly scheduled coincidental, "OOOPS, again!!" aka $abotage of America's rail, shipping, warehouses, food supply, and fossil fuels sources.

The whole "DEI" thing? It appears to be providing coincidental and plausible scapegoat / cover for the ongoing demo'ing of infrastructure and systems.
Posted by Liberator
Revelation 20:10-12
Member since Jul 2020
9071 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:56 pm to
Here's a wild and crazy idea...

How about if ALLLLL of those foreign aid hundreds of billion$ earmarked to Ukraine, Israel, along with up-keep of 750 military bases are re-routed BACK to the USA ??

And maybe it's a much better investment to help upgrade and ensure the safety of the USA's thousands of miles of crumbling roads, bridges, railways, and infrastructure?? (rather than "investing" in foreign blood sacrifice)

Just sayin'.
Posted by BuckyCheese
Member since Jan 2015
52932 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 9:59 pm to
Had a cop call in one of these as well as I whistled through town at 60MPH.



DS was all freaked out, she was excitable which isn't great for that job, but I'd already taken care of it so it didn't get to this point;



Stack fires aren't unusual on GE's. Injector issues.

Posted by BuckyCheese
Member since Jan 2015
52932 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:00 pm to
quote:

Here's a wild and crazy idea...



Considering the railroads are not nationalized, and they never should be, that is in fact a wild a crazy idea.
Posted by FreedomBarefoot
42° parallel
Member since Aug 2016
1859 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:11 pm to
That's crazy

quote:

Stack fires aren't unusual on GE's. Injector issues.


Did you stop the gas flow somehow?
Posted by BuckyCheese
Member since Jan 2015
52932 posts
Posted on 4/28/24 at 10:32 pm to
Just shut it down including the fuel pumps.

They really start going when the raw, burning fuel out the stack runs back down on top of the prime mover and melts the fuel rails which are rubber/plastic.

I've heard stories of fire departments sticking their hose down the exhaust stack. That is NOT good for the prime mover.
This post was edited on 4/28/24 at 10:34 pm
Posted by finkle
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2016
65 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 12:15 pm to
Looks Like you might be an NSer? Do you guys use trip optimizer? I'm a BNSFer, we almost exclusively use it, under penalty of investigation, so when you say "shitty engineer", i'll retort with shitty AI program to run the trains... and that train make up you cited that was a shitty engineer, maybe, if we were able to split screens and run manually, and had years of experience doing it, maybe... but our trainees come out the program with practically no hands on training running trains, fire up PTC and Optimizer and let'r run...
2-3 years ago, in a 13 month period we piled up 3 bargals/galbars between KCK and Galesburg, ILL, a lot of undulating track, all of them 8-10,000' long 10-14,000 tons, made up almost like you described with DP, Optimizer running and everyone with the DP in high throttle, descending grade, head end ascending grade in low throttle or idle, crazy run in, in middle of train with a bunch of emties.... BOOM, calamity...
So, your generalization of "shitty engineers" doesn't" quite cover everything/one and all situations...

Also, didn't the Palistine train get caught by a detector and they were told to keep moving to next station to set out car or inspect? don't recall exact details...

All that being said, these long trains are no good, and we/the RRs are getting lucky they haven't piled shite up in a major population area yet...

In my humple opin....
Posted by troyt37
Member since Mar 2008
13666 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 12:49 pm to
quote:

New Mexican government.


I lived in New Mexico for 5 years, my oldest son was born there. I've never heard it called the "New Mexican" anything.
Posted by Oabafu
Wisconsin
Member since Jan 2022
1170 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 1:06 pm to
quote:

Oh well in that case Pete is a fantastic DEI hire


D - DIDN'T

E - EARN

I - IT

Yup, THAT's Petey the Buttgagger!!

Posted by AlterDWI
Pattern Noticing, Alabama
Member since Nov 2012
3705 posts
Posted on 4/29/24 at 1:53 pm to
quote:

Do you guys use trip optimizer?


If equipped, we have to use it 90% of the time.

quote:

Also, didn't the Palistine train get caught by a detector and they were told to keep moving to next station to set out car or inspect?


During the PSR phase, NS decided it took too long for a crew to stop & inspect for every defect message so their solution was to have people monitor the information from an office building & if the defect hit several detectors then they would inform the crew. The person working the "wayside desk" the night if E Palestine testified that, because of PSR cuts to manpower, he worked 12 hr shifts by himself from home with no breaks. One man for the entire system. IIRC he was tending to two other crews so he wasn't able to inform the E Palestine crew before they derailed.

quote:

All that being said, these long trains are no good,


Agreed. Just bc you can doesnt mean you should.
This post was edited on 4/29/24 at 1:56 pm
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