re: Jesse Kelly with the hard truth on the GOP abortion issue

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I think if you accept that abortion is the taking of human life, it's a pretty uphill argument to differentiate it from murder in the overwhelming majority of instances.

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we have to kill them or they'll die, you see.

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I think if you accept that abortion is the taking of human life, it's a pretty uphill argument to differentiate it from murder in the overwhelming majority of instances.

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For the purposes of this thread I'm not even saying that it's not and I'm arguing from the point that it is murder of a human being.

I don't think anybody in this threat is disagreeing other than a few drive-bys from earlier

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So that people can be saved from a hell that god created? Heard it before too, and it seems silly to me. Should we be gracious for the fireman who put out the fire in the burning building when he was the one who committed the arson in the first place?

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Except for the fact that we choose to walk into the house that is on fire. If there are a 100 signs telling you don’t go this direction and you do it anyway and walk into the burning building, then yeah you should thank the person that saved you.

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Exodus 22
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29“You shall not delay to offer from the fullness of your harvest and from the outflow of your presses. The firstborn of your sons you shall give to me. 30You shall do the same with your oxen and with your sheep: seven days it shall be with its mother; on the eighth day you shall give it to me.

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The problem is you are viewing a specific verse and when it fits into the overall context it is likely referring to the Passover which says you can substitute an animal in place. Example: Joseph and Mary offering up two turtle doves in the gospel for their first born.

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Let me break it down for you. All the firstborn males of humans, oxen, and sheep shall be with their mothers for 7 days, at which point they shall be given to god. It doesn’t mean that the baby boys, the calves, and the lambs become temple workers or priests. When these verses were written, the way any of these were sacrificed was by being killed on an altar and burned. Isaac was about to be given to God by Abraham… what was Isaac carrying? Firewood.

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But here is the catch, he doesn’t make Abraham offer Isaac as a sacrifice. Another note about that story is that if Isaac is old enough to carry firewood for an animal sacrifice, he is certainly strong enough to overpower is father so he isn’t burned alive. Both display complete trust in the lord which is the moral of that story.

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Sure, you will find throughout the Bible it says sacrificing of one’s children are detestable. The Bible wasn’t written by one person and certainly not a divine perfect being. It was written by different authors at different times. Some did child sacrifice. Some did not. Both of their opposing writings ended up in the same compilation.

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The Bible very clearly condemns child sacrifice. Hell, you can almost make the argument that the underlying theme of the Old Testament is “Stop sacrificing the children.” Did some of them do it? Absolutely. But that doesn’t mean the Bible justifies it.

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God also accepted the sacrifice of Jepthah’s daughter and accepted the sacrifice of seven sons of Saul by David. You will find many biblical verses saying “do not sacrifice your children” and “quit sacrificing your children” and “so and so did evil in the site of the lord by passing his firstborn through the fire”… because it was a widespread normal practice that the elite priestly/scribal class was trying to stop.

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I think God’s justice isn’t always easy for us to comprehend. What is clear throughout the Bible and history is that family will pay for the sins of their ancestors.

But your last line proves my point. Child sacrifice was widespread and one culture directed its people to outright reject it.

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Yeah because
- it says the husband suspects adultery (what evidence would he have? Pregnancy?)
- the poison potion is given to the woman to achieve a result, to find out if she’s been cheating. What could have been a verifiable result for them?
- it literally states she will miscarry if she is guilty. She kind of has to be pregnant if she is going to potentially miscarry.

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Jealousy. People still accuse their spouses of cheating when they aren’t pregnant. I think the verifiable result is clear, that God transforms the solution into a poison to punish the woman for sexual immorality. It does not literally say miscarriage. It says stomach to swell and genitals to shrink.

You guys are Chumps, you fall for bunk. The Issue in Alabama was a SPECIAL ELECTION, people like Soros FLOOD money into these small non significant state elections, then get out the vote, when they know, NO ONE shows up to these things, and say, LOOK, OOK, LOOK how it shifted on one issue, the REAL ISSUA was it was a Special Election, guess what, the margin on Presidential Election night will flip back Republican. The News Medias are then waiting in the wings, they are all in cahoots, to publish these results and INFORM US what they mean, imho, only lightweight non thinkers fall for this propaganda.

This is PROPAGANDA 101. The Media do this to TWIST peoples arms in the Republican Party. Where Trump is smart, hes doing a Dem, hes LYING about his stances, then the Real Trump who has only 1 term left will do the bidding of Christian Conservatives who know its really murder. As a Pastor/Preacher of 40 plus years, let me let you guys in on a secret, ANY MAN (Woman) who Advocates, supports or votes in those who approve of Homosexual Marriage, of Abortion, of anything deviant, will not make heaven, you can not advocate for Homosexuality or Abortion and be if God, you are kidding yourselves.

Remember this, Jesus will say to many people, DEPART from me I never knew you. In Rev. 21:8 Jesus says all Sexual Perverts and Liars will see themselves in hell.

Rev. 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Here’s one last thing. In a book with over 20,000 verses, written over thousands of years through multiple eras of civilization, are there parts that will be troubling? Of course. But what I do know is that the overarching theme of the Bible is consistent. Reading the Bible for the first time certainly troubled me at certain portions but as a whole, it was life changing. I see the world completely different. I see people completely different.

I also don’t believe there will be a short answer quiz at the gates of heaven on biblical history like we are discussing. The Bible is a roadmap on how to live. I do my best to try and live it, yet come up short every day. But each day, working towards that goal I know I get better and get closer. I can’t explain all 20,000 verses but reading those 20,000 verses gave me a faith I didn’t have before. A faith that God is just. Even when I don’t or can’t understand suffering, to trust that he’s in charge and ultimately some good will come of it.

Due to the increasing availability of abortion meds, but go off

And as someone who cheers abortion - why do you care?

Next, she'll start talking about the post-Bruen bump...

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No way to know, but the best evidence we have is that Republican policy dreams lead to exactly the thing they claim not to want.

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In the short term, before we can even analyze the data.

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If you can’t figure out that they are talking about an unborn baby, then I’m afraid you might have shite for brains. Sorry.

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You are making an interpretation. It says nothing about a baby. Just that she will be disfigured. I would refrain from hurling insults when this is highly up for debate and certainly not set in stone either way.