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re: Jesse Kelly with the hard truth on the GOP abortion issue
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:32 am to AUCom96
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:32 am to AUCom96
quote:
Apply that to the left over the last 30-40 years and tell me how much they "accepted political realities" and then explain to me how they have come to completely dominate world political ideology.
That's the people, not "the left".
Developed societies move left over time. I mean look at social standards 100 years ago, 200 years ago, etc. and see how we've moved left.
2
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:33 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Who is in that population? Those like myself who are willing to die on this hill of abortion do so because we believe this is a hill worth dying on, not because we simply want to die on a hill to feel better about ourselves.
Hence, martyrdom syndrome. There is a large population on the American right who want to lose b/c it makes them feel like martyrs.
This post was edited on 4/9/24 at 8:34 am
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:36 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Because in a democracy, elections are won based on the popularity of the various policies in the electorate. The right hasn't "given up" anything. They are trying to preserve policies that are no longer popular with voters (this preservation is the nature of conservatism, conserving the past).
Yes, but that is where the right has lost ground, in the culture. We do a terrible job at convincing the general public that Christian principles are a good thing. Perhaps a lot of us can look inward and realize that starts in the home.
quote:
If you do this with an unpopular policy, you're committing suicide in a democracy.
Maybe. But slowly trading in your principles for small political win leaves you with absolutely nothing in the end. At worst, you’ve turned yourself into what you stood against. At best, you’ve given up on your principles and given your opponent all power.
quote:
Hence, martyrdom syndrome. There is a large population on the American right who want to lose b/c it makes them feel like martyrs.
I don’t think that’s it. I think there are a lot that don’t care if they lose as long as they are standing up for what they believe in. I do think there are numerous Republican legislators who take this position intentionally hurting the Republican vote, because it is easier to be in the minority party.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:37 am to msutiger
quote:
No national GOPer can run on being pro-life and win.
/thread
Hoepfully the "conservatives" on here finally understand this
And why I said Ron would never win with that 6 week ban move
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:37 am to msutiger
I completely agree with Jesse.
However, I have come to the conclusion that America (in its current state) can never really be a "people". That's a deeper conversation, but the only thing we need to focus on at the national level is decoupling from the global order and decentralizing the American government.
It is a fools errand to even pretend, this gigantic, bloated, behemoth of a country has any chance to come together on an issue like abortion right now. At least not for the moral option.
We can't just sit here and tilt windmills. Real action for real solution needs to be the focus and priority, there is no more time to he wasted on stale CPAC talking points.
However, I have come to the conclusion that America (in its current state) can never really be a "people". That's a deeper conversation, but the only thing we need to focus on at the national level is decoupling from the global order and decentralizing the American government.
It is a fools errand to even pretend, this gigantic, bloated, behemoth of a country has any chance to come together on an issue like abortion right now. At least not for the moral option.
We can't just sit here and tilt windmills. Real action for real solution needs to be the focus and priority, there is no more time to he wasted on stale CPAC talking points.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:42 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Who is in that population?
People who say like this:
quote:
When you really think about it, that kinda means we’re not a people worth saving.
quote:
Those like myself who are willing to die on this hill of abortion do so because we believe this is a hill worth dying on
I imagine you're in the population. The "willing to die on the hill" is the martyrdom in the martyrdom syndrome.
It's a combination of being "willing to die on this hill" and feeling like you're better than the "people not worth saving" who are in the majority.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:43 am to VOR
quote:If that were true, the abortion industry would not be making so much money selling unborn baby body parts.
Abortions after the 2nd trimester are very rare. And then it is typically a matter of life and death for the mother( and/or little chance of a healthy being born).
Regardless, it is an issue that should be left up to the state. The beliefs and morals (or lack there of) in blue states should not be forced on Red States. Nor should the views of Red States be forced on blue states.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:46 am to msutiger
quote:
We do a terrible job at convincing the general public that Christian principles are a good thing. Perhaps a lot of us can look inward and realize that starts in the home.
You lost when you chose to make bad investment in institutions. The left was a lot smarter in how they invested in institutions, and it's paying off. You need to look outward, outside of the home.
quote:
But slowly trading in your principles for small political win leaves you with absolutely nothing in the end.
Because your political profile is dying.
quote:
I think there are a lot that don’t care if they lose as long as they are standing up for what they believe in.
How is that not being a martyr?
quote:
I do think there are numerous Republican legislators who take this position intentionally hurting the Republican vote, because it is easier to be in the minority party.
Again, how is this not exactly what I'm saying about martyrdom?
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:47 am to tndawg
Been saying this for years now, Trump and Miss Lindsey Graham are not pals. Trump has something on him, likely related to his sexuality, and has put Lindsey in a compromised situation where he forced to show up against his will and tuck his tail between his legs and stump for Trump, while the crowd boos him and Trump makes fun of him. 
Linda went from frothing at the mouth angry and TDS fueled rants against Trump to the very next day being his biggest fan for a while... Something happened.
Linda went from frothing at the mouth angry and TDS fueled rants against Trump to the very next day being his biggest fan for a while... Something happened.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:47 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That's the people, not "the left".
Developed societies move left over time. I mean look at social standards 100 years ago, 200 years ago, etc. and see how we've moved left.
The people don't choose candidates and the people don't run campaigns. And they also can move "right". We went from the liberal 60s to the evangelical, free trade 80s. Now we've gone far beyond where the 60s left off into some twisted utopian corporate-driven authoritarianism that both parties largely back. That's not "people". That's just cattle herding.
But if you just shrug and say "that's political realities", then why even debate this stuff? What's even worth believing in, much less running a campaign on? And that's where the GOP is. They aren't conserving anything. They're just skimming what pork they can, getting fat off it and then retreating to an easy retirement at some empty office corporate "job".
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:49 am to msutiger
No national candidate can run on it because we don’t have real elections obviously
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:50 am to msutiger
It blows my mind how stupid this is.
Most important election, most on the line, the same topic fricked up the 2022 election.
Let’s discuss more….derp.
Most important election, most on the line, the same topic fricked up the 2022 election.
Let’s discuss more….derp.
This post was edited on 4/9/24 at 9:03 am
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:53 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Its all about our communities, not the nation anymore.
That was the plan all along.
They won.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:55 am to msutiger
Women like having the right to killing their unborn babies... and they're still called "mothers".
Posted on 4/9/24 at 8:59 am to TigerAxeOK
Or…God is getting rid of the United States for our own benefit
Posted on 4/9/24 at 9:01 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:I've heard of a marytr complex, and after looking into it again, I certainly don't have that.
I imagine you're in the population. The "willing to die on the hill" is the martyrdom in the martyrdom syndrome.
It's a combination of being "willing to die on this hill" and feeling like you're better than the "people not worth saving" who are in the majority.
I think you're just looking to label people who feel passionately against abortion, even to the point of political loss, in a negative way.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 9:02 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You lost when you chose to make bad investment in institutions. The left was a lot smarter in how they invested in institutions, and it's paying off. You need to look outward, outside of the home.
I disagree. It has to start in the home. That is the foundation. I think we have to focus on the institutions as well, but if we aren’t developing that moral foundation in the next generation it is pointless.
quote:
Because your political profile is dying.
Right. You don’t bring that profile back to life by transforming it into everything you stood against.
quote:
How is that not being a martyr?
Again, how is this not exactly what I'm saying about martyrdom?
I think it is more about the way you frame it. I think there is a massive difference in standing up for what you believe in, regardless of the consequence and what you are kinda hinting at which is “I want to die for this cause so I’ll feel good about myself.”
Technically they are both “martyrs” but they aren’t the same. Their intentions were completely different
Posted on 4/9/24 at 9:02 am to msutiger
Why don’t conservatives teach and preach personal responsibility instead?
Posted on 4/9/24 at 9:05 am to VOR
quote:
And then it is typically a matter of life and death for the mother( and/or little chance of a healthy being born).
This is bullshite. I'd be willing to bet that >95% of abortions are nothing more than late stage birth control.
Posted on 4/9/24 at 9:07 am to msutiger
quote:Abortion is morally repugnant. But at the same time, I realize our government is specifically designed to represent the people. Unfortunately, this is who we've become.
No national GOPer can run on being pro-life and win.
Some in the GOP wants to run on abortion as a moral issue. But our government's purpose isn't to enforce morals. It's to represent the people--fortunate or unfortunate.
Changing the culture and encouraging good morals is an honorable endeavor. Necessary even! But government isn't the way to do it. If you look at how we got here--it's almost all cultural. The leftists took control of the media, education, music, art...to distort the culture.
Republicans could learn a thing or two. You need to change the culture -> then the government. Not the other way aroud.
quote:Sad but some truth to it.
that kinda means we’re not a people worth saving.
This post was edited on 4/9/24 at 9:10 am
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