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re: On this date in 1954, the USSR, aka, the Soviet Union, officially submitted a request…
Posted on 3/31/24 at 8:31 pm to Tigerlaff
Posted on 3/31/24 at 8:31 pm to Tigerlaff
quote:
Serious question. Is it reasonable for Russia to want a buffer between itself and NATO countries?
They use to have a buffer. Poland, East Germany, Hungary and the other Eastern Bloc nations formed a buffer. It was commonly known as the Iron Curtain.
Russia conquered all these countries and NATO was formed to stop further eastward aggression by Russia. When these nations finally freed themselves from Russian dominance and guess what? Over time they all asked to be in NATO. There is safety in numbers.
When Russia asked to get into NATO they had already helped kill thousands of Americans in Korea. Instead of joining the United Nations, they joined their Communist brothers. Why would we ever excrpt them into NATO. They proved to be ruthless and a danger to democracies across Europe and the world.
NATO is not an offensive threat to Russia, but if does serve as a threat to Russia recreating their empire. Ukraine moving towards the West wasn’t acceptable to Russia; who wanted Crimea, Kiev and Odessa back. They saw a weakness in Obama and then Biden.
If there was no NATO Russia would have invented some other reason to ruthlessly take Ukraine.
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Posted on 3/31/24 at 8:32 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:Russia has occupied and/or has annexed part of the Republic of Georgia, a significant part of eastern Ukraine in 2014 and more in 2022 and a significant part of eastern Moldova.
It’s the same empire that Volodya Putin is now attempting to re-establish.
We’ve been hearing this for 20 plus years now. Where is the evidence of this? And before you say Ukraine hur durrr,
In 2005 Putin called the collapse of the Soviet empire “the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century.”
His actions since then tell me he’s not just complaining about it. He plans to do something about it.
Posted on 3/31/24 at 8:33 pm to YouKnowImRight
quote:
This is about subjugation of Ukraine. NATO is the strawman
OP claims Putin's Russia going to remake USSR and her territories through force.
Many of us don't think it is possible if the Russian losses are what is being reported.
Posted on 3/31/24 at 8:43 pm to LSURussian
quote:
By attacking a peaceful neighbor and killing tens of thousands of their civilians in the process to achieve that "buffer"?
There was a buffer before we changed that with our Ukrainian coup.
We were about to bring that “peaceful neighbor” into an alliance that’s entire purpose is anti Russia.
I’m sure you’d be perfectly fine with Russian weapons and bases in Mexico though. Remember the Cuban missile crisis?
Posted on 3/31/24 at 8:48 pm to HughsWorkPhone
quote:
There was a buffer before we changed that with our Ukrainian coup.
There have many additions to Nato towards Russian Borders since 1997
Posted on 3/31/24 at 8:57 pm to LSURussian
Must we once again list the numerous American provocations that has resulted in the current situation in Ukraine? You people cannot face reality; we are the bad guys here. 
Posted on 3/31/24 at 9:02 pm to Scruffy
quote:
You morons sound exactly the same as the people who screamed to high heaven that we should invade the ME.
EXACTLY the same.
Clearly, you must be right this time.
I was an 18 YO FF in NY and volunteered to respond to Manhattan. Lost brothers, friends and neighbors that day. I wanted revenge, and for the US to do everything possible to keep that from ever happening on US soil again. frick Ukraine and giving them handouts only to line certain peoples pockets.
I'm older and don't see things the same way now. Maybe you were too young at the time, but there was a very real feeling that everyone in the country felt personally attacked after 9/11. Same way my grandfather felt after Pearl Harbor.
To equate supporting Ukraine with supporting going into the ME after 9/11 at the time sounds kinda ignorant to me.
I do agree that supporting Ukraine now, especially on the scale the US has pumped money into it, is a colossal waste.
Posted on 3/31/24 at 9:03 pm to HughsWorkPhone
quote:More Russian propaganda bullshite. That “coup” was a popular uprising by Ukrainians who opposed Russian involvement in rigging the election process which determined that a pro-Russian President was elected.
There was a buffer before we changed that with our Ukrainian coup.
I was working in Kiev when that was going on.
I witnessed firsthand the Ukrainian people refusing to allow Russia to steal their Presidential election.
quote:.
The Orange Revolution (Ukrainian: ??????????? ?????????, romanized: Pomarancheva revoliutsiia) was a series of protests, that lead to political upheaval in Ukraine from late November 2004 to January 2005. It gained momentum primarily due to the initiative of the general population,[7] sparked by the aftermath of the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election run-off which was claimed to be marred by massive corruption, voter intimidation and electoral fraud.[8] Kyiv, the Ukrainian capital, was the focal point of the movement's campaign of civil resistance, with thousands of protesters demonstrating daily.[9] Nationwide,[10] this was highlighted by a series of acts of civil disobedience, sit-ins, and general strikes organized by the opposition movement.
The protests were prompted by reports from several domestic and foreign election monitors as well as the widespread public perception that the results of the run-off vote of 21 November 2004 between leading candidates Viktor Yushchenko and Viktor Yanukovych were rigged by the authorities in favour of the latter.[11] The nationwide protests succeeded when the results of the original run-off were annulled, and a revote was ordered by Ukraine's Supreme Court for 26 December 2004. Under intense scrutiny by domestic and international observers, the second run-off was declared to be "free and fair". The final results showed a clear victory for Yushchenko, who received about 52% of the vote, compared to Yanukovych's 44%. Yushchenko was declared the official winner and with his inauguration on 23 January 2005 in Kyiv, the Orange Revolution ended. In the following years, the Orange Revolution had a negative connotation among pro-government circles in Belarus and Russia.
LINK
Only Putin syncophants believe it was a “coup.”
Posted on 3/31/24 at 9:04 pm to Perfect Circle
quote:So is Russia.
You people cannot face reality; we are the bad guys here.
There are no good guys here.
The entire situation is FUBAR.
Posted on 3/31/24 at 9:07 pm to LSURussian
We should have listened to Patton at the end of WWII and drove the Soviets out of eastern Europe.
Posted on 3/31/24 at 9:08 pm to stuckintexas
quote:The only “equating” I am doing is pointing out that we were lied to then, but the US politicians are being completely honest now.
To equate supporting Ukraine with supporting going into the ME after 9/11 at the time sounds kinda ignorant to me.
Yea, ok.
How many times must we be lied to before you all stop supporting this nonsense?
I’m not even bringing in the other “conflicts” we were dragged into over the decades.
This post was edited on 3/31/24 at 9:10 pm
Posted on 3/31/24 at 9:13 pm to Speckhunter2012
quote:I did not claim that.
OP claims Putin's Russia going to remake USSR
I said Putin is attempting to reestablish the USSR.
Posted on 3/31/24 at 9:29 pm to Scruffy
quote:
You morons sound exactly the same as the people who screamed to high heaven that we should invade the ME.
You should have listened to me, I was against those interventions.
When I spoke out against the first Gulf War, I was told I was unpatriotic (at best) and not supporting the troops.
I was also against Bush I's operation in Panama, cynically referred to as "Just 'Cuz".
I was also against Ronald Reagan putting marines in Lebanon in 1982.
Seems like maybe you've been listening to the wrong people. Let me guess, they also told you they were the party of "fiscal responsibility"?
Posted on 3/31/24 at 9:32 pm to Cosmo
We are getting invaded on our southern border. When are we going to get a buffer state?
Posted on 3/31/24 at 9:39 pm to ApexTiger
quote:
There have many additions to Nato towards Russian Borders since 1997
And how many times has NATO attacked Russia? How many times has a NATO member attacked Russia? How many NATO countries has Russia attacked? How many countries not in NATO has Russia attacked?
It seems to me that I’d want to be in NATO, and it seems to me that Russia only would not want me in NATO because they mean to do me harm.
Posted on 3/31/24 at 10:52 pm to Scruffy
quote:
looked it up on Wikipedia and, since 1992, Russia has invaded Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine.
quote:
shite, the US has invaded at least 5 in the same time period.
Afghanistan, Iraq, toppled Libya, tried to topple Egypt with the Arab Spring, Syria, Yemen. Obama also sent his advisor to Israel to try and upend the elections by backing the challenger to Benny N. Hell we practically set the entire Middle East on fire, but hey the scary Russians are trying to restart the Soviet Union.
Posted on 3/31/24 at 11:35 pm to LSURussian
why is state aggression viewed as something wrong? isn't that what stronger states should be doing to consolidate power and to create buffer along its borer. Russia has a long history of being invaded by very large armies. not your typical regional militaries but multi ethnic and religious empires.
Posted on 4/1/24 at 1:57 am to Penrod
quote:
The purpose of all of that was to hound Al Qaeda so they could not strike the USA again.
Great strategy we have. Arm terrorists. Have terrorists attack us. Kill terrorists. Create more terrorists. Rinse and repeat. The neocon foreign policy.
Posted on 4/1/24 at 4:36 am to RFK
quote:Afghanistan was the right thing to do in 2001. But, it should have been a "shock and awe" like Daddy Bush did in Desert Storm. In and out and not try to force our way of government on people who knew nothing but their own way of life.
The US invaded Iraq in 2003, not 2001.
Afghanistan was 2001.
Iraq and 2003 was W wholly making up a reason to go in to finish what the generals didn't want daddy to do in 91 and 92. Bomb a country all to hell and then rebuild it? One of the most stupid things this country ever did. There were obvious WMDs at one time because Sadaam used him on his own people. Were they there when we invaded? Probably not and W knew that. Didn't matter.
Posted on 4/1/24 at 10:50 am to Blizzard of Chizz
Better question is how much land have we kept. We stick our nose in everyone’s business but we are not conquerers.
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