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Started By
Message
Post Covid golf greed
Posted on 2/2/23 at 10:36 am
Posted on 2/2/23 at 10:36 am
We all know the rise of golf popularity due to covid. Now with inflation the greens fees haven’t come down at all.
I think some of the pricing is regional, but here in AZ the best way I can describe it is price gouging.
I played yesterday at a decent course for around $90 which included my lowered “troon card rate” and also a 15% discount. Rack rate probably $130-140 I am guessing. This is on a Wednesday at 11am.
Since superbowl coming and waste management this week these courses are almost playing a game of how high can we go w rates. Imagine airport food prices but for greens fees.
Same course from yesterday gonna charge $400/rd.
Grayhawk is $520 after taxes on Wednesday but $675 on the weekend of superbowl.
Boulders is gonna try and get $500 on the weekend
Desert Ridge (I would consider mediocre for AZ golf) $499
Troon North is $625 pretax
Quintero $500
You get the picture. It goes without saying none of us will be playing next week, but I don’t understand how these courses are gonna get Pebble beach l, Whistling Straits and Sawgrass pricing.
I know it’s supply and demand, but when is the golf industry going to correct? Is it going to take a huge recession?
I think some of the pricing is regional, but here in AZ the best way I can describe it is price gouging.
I played yesterday at a decent course for around $90 which included my lowered “troon card rate” and also a 15% discount. Rack rate probably $130-140 I am guessing. This is on a Wednesday at 11am.
Since superbowl coming and waste management this week these courses are almost playing a game of how high can we go w rates. Imagine airport food prices but for greens fees.
Same course from yesterday gonna charge $400/rd.
Grayhawk is $520 after taxes on Wednesday but $675 on the weekend of superbowl.
Boulders is gonna try and get $500 on the weekend
Desert Ridge (I would consider mediocre for AZ golf) $499
Troon North is $625 pretax
Quintero $500
You get the picture. It goes without saying none of us will be playing next week, but I don’t understand how these courses are gonna get Pebble beach l, Whistling Straits and Sawgrass pricing.
I know it’s supply and demand, but when is the golf industry going to correct? Is it going to take a huge recession?
Posted on 2/2/23 at 10:54 am to 0jersey
quote:
Since superbowl coming and waste management this week these courses are almost playing a game of how high can we go w rates.
That’s fairly standard for everything in entertainment and dining when a superbowl comes to town. Just stay home for a bit and wait it out. I know this isn’t the answer you wanted to hear.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 11:08 am to CoachChappy
I understand that. I am fine without golf for a bit. But the courses here haven’t really come down a bit and are still easily 20% inflated which is higher than inflation pricing.
I was just pointing out to those not from the area the ridiculousness of the golf industry currently.
I was just pointing out to those not from the area the ridiculousness of the golf industry currently.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 11:18 am to 0jersey
The cost of fertilizer has more than tripled......
Posted on 2/2/23 at 11:25 am to 0jersey
quote:
still easily 20% inflated which is higher than inflation pricing.
So you believe what the Biden administration is selling. Wow! Chemicals, fertilizer and other course maintenance costs are likely well above 20% higher YOY.
quote:
the ridiculousness of the regional golf industry currently
Understand you are venting here but I don't quite understand how anyone would be surprised by this with the SB in Arizona. I'm in the Houston area and if the SB was coming here, I would expect everything in the entertainment areas to be sky high through out the whole metro area.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 12:08 pm to 0jersey
quote:
We all know the rise of golf popularity due to covid. Now with inflation the greens fees haven’t come down at all.
More people are playing golf. Supply and Demand. When people quit buying the tee times the price will come back down. Golf courses are businesses.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 2:59 pm to 0jersey
Join a club, bro. Avoid surge pricing
Posted on 2/2/23 at 3:47 pm to Zanzibaw
quote:
More people are playing golf. Supply and Demand. When people quit buying the tee times the price will come back down. Golf courses are businesses.
You would think that would be the case, but not always.
Meadowbrook Farms here in Houston area during the week would rather have 10 cars in the parking lot at a 70.00 green fee than lowering the price to 50 bucks and filling up the course.
And since covid, a lot of courses have forgotten how much food and beverages profits add to the bottom line.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 4:00 pm to bopper50
quote:
Meadowbrook Farms
I've played there once when the weekend rate was $100. I figured I'd see if it was worth it. When it pops up in Golf Now, I am astounded that the rate has gone up to $115. It's just not a great course. I'd much rather play Cinco for the same rate, let alone lower.
I've mentioned it before, but the same thing is happening with Black Horse. I cannot believe that people are paying $150 on the weekend to play an average course. They're losing a ton of money the last few days. It's still under water after the rain from the weekend.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 5:21 pm to Zanzibaw
quote:
More people are playing golf.
This is so weird to me because not even 7-10 years ago courses across the country were in bad financial shape and closing.
Now all of the sudden there’s a huge uptick and it’s more expensive than ever?
Not to mention, all of the TopGolf locations. Are they doing as well as they were a few years ago?
Posted on 2/2/23 at 8:15 pm to Paul Allen
I guess I should feel lucky to live in the Midwest where I do. University level course, it's pretty dang nice, $27 weekdays, $35 weekends. Cart fees run $20.
I pay an annual membership of $579. I golf 4-5 days a week. Walk each time. Annual cart fees are also $579 if I wanted to ride or I could buy my own cart and drive on paying a trail fee since I only live a block off the course.
My annual membership includes a list of area courses where I get 18 holes and a cart for $28. Kind of a reciprocity deal the courses have with each other.
I wouldn't play golf if I had to pay the prices you guys are discussing here.
I pay an annual membership of $579. I golf 4-5 days a week. Walk each time. Annual cart fees are also $579 if I wanted to ride or I could buy my own cart and drive on paying a trail fee since I only live a block off the course.
My annual membership includes a list of area courses where I get 18 holes and a cart for $28. Kind of a reciprocity deal the courses have with each other.
I wouldn't play golf if I had to pay the prices you guys are discussing here.
Posted on 2/2/23 at 8:20 pm to SoDakHawk
I'm jealous of those prices, but I also assume golf is limited to 6-8 months a year. The summers are rough here, but it doesn't keep me from playing golf. Winter is quite nice 90% of the time. It'll be 70 when I tee off Sunday.
ETA: I assumed you were in Iowa from the team, but now I see the name. I'm going to guess golf months are closer to 6 than 8 in South Dakota. The extra daylight in the summer must be pretty cool, though.
ETA: I assumed you were in Iowa from the team, but now I see the name. I'm going to guess golf months are closer to 6 than 8 in South Dakota. The extra daylight in the summer must be pretty cool, though.
This post was edited on 2/2/23 at 8:23 pm
Posted on 2/2/23 at 8:42 pm to DestrehanTiger
April to Early November. Sometimes as early as mid-March. So 7-8 months
There have been some mild winters where the course was open at least one day each month of winter. Not this year with about 2 feet of snow on the ground.
ETA - I'm in SE South Dakota. The Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota tri-state area.
There have been some mild winters where the course was open at least one day each month of winter. Not this year with about 2 feet of snow on the ground.
ETA - I'm in SE South Dakota. The Iowa, Nebraska, South Dakota tri-state area.
This post was edited on 2/2/23 at 8:44 pm
Posted on 2/2/23 at 9:04 pm to bopper50
I get all the people saying "supply and demand", but my point is really that these courses just are not supplying anywhere close to the value anymore.
It was always significantly more to golf in the winter here. But living here as a resident you could at least count on the summer rates in the heat to be reasonable.
These days every course wants you to buy their "card" that includes one or two other courses for discounted rates. I buy a Troon card every year for about $500 and every year they reign in the 2 for 1 greens fee perks a little more. The rates are a bit more reasonable, but it's not just me. All my buddies out here can't believe what some of these goat ranches are charging these days not just during this unique week.
Let me phrase it to you this way- Would you pay $150 to play Santa Maria? How about $395 to play TPC? If the Bluffs were still around I'm sure you would be ok with the once a year $450 price tag right?
Supply and demand? It's cool you could still play Webb for $90 or City Park for $65 (only after 1pm though otherwise it's $110 and $90)
I play about 80-110 rounds a year and I would join a club if I could but there are long wait lists and the initiation fees are stupid. I'm talking $65k to $350k prior to dues.
Part of me is ready for the upcoming correction.
I get that fertilizer and other costs have gone up, but when you are getting $75-$300 a round and you don't have to take but 6 weeks off for overseed all year you aren't barely making profit. You are raking it in.
Anyway, hopefully prices don't get out of control where you all live. I can just tell you it really sucks to be paying high fees for garbage courses.
It was always significantly more to golf in the winter here. But living here as a resident you could at least count on the summer rates in the heat to be reasonable.
These days every course wants you to buy their "card" that includes one or two other courses for discounted rates. I buy a Troon card every year for about $500 and every year they reign in the 2 for 1 greens fee perks a little more. The rates are a bit more reasonable, but it's not just me. All my buddies out here can't believe what some of these goat ranches are charging these days not just during this unique week.
Let me phrase it to you this way- Would you pay $150 to play Santa Maria? How about $395 to play TPC? If the Bluffs were still around I'm sure you would be ok with the once a year $450 price tag right?
Supply and demand? It's cool you could still play Webb for $90 or City Park for $65 (only after 1pm though otherwise it's $110 and $90)
I play about 80-110 rounds a year and I would join a club if I could but there are long wait lists and the initiation fees are stupid. I'm talking $65k to $350k prior to dues.
Part of me is ready for the upcoming correction.
I get that fertilizer and other costs have gone up, but when you are getting $75-$300 a round and you don't have to take but 6 weeks off for overseed all year you aren't barely making profit. You are raking it in.
Anyway, hopefully prices don't get out of control where you all live. I can just tell you it really sucks to be paying high fees for garbage courses.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 6:22 am to 0jersey
Quality and value is factored into supply and demand...it's not a separate variable.
I look at it the same way I do Gulf Coast beach condos. I can stay on the beach in Hawaii for less than what I can on 30A and need a golf cart to trek my family back and forth...why, because other people pay it. Doesnt mean I have to though.
I think it's absolutely absurd to spend that kind of money for beach rentals in places like Destin, Pensacola, Rosemary, etc. and is a horrible value BUT because so many other people don't agree with me, that's the demand and there just simply is not enough supply to keep up with the demand most of the year.
ETA: I have found myself just walking and playing goat ranch shite holes alot more and going to the range alot less. At least if I walk on a course with GPS I can get more accurate yardage info. Every now and then I'll hit the range to work on something swing specific if I have something I am really struggling with but I unfortunately play more shitty courses now (listen to podcasts, sports talk radio, music, etc) and have a 3 hour practice session and limit nice courses ($60-$100) to maybe twice a month.
The bubble will burst, it always does, then prices will drop.
My suggestion is to follow as many of them as you can and keep an eye on their specials. Almost everywhere does it from time to time when they see a drop off. Some sort of local special or two for $____ or half off a round the month of your birthday, etc.
I look at it the same way I do Gulf Coast beach condos. I can stay on the beach in Hawaii for less than what I can on 30A and need a golf cart to trek my family back and forth...why, because other people pay it. Doesnt mean I have to though.
I think it's absolutely absurd to spend that kind of money for beach rentals in places like Destin, Pensacola, Rosemary, etc. and is a horrible value BUT because so many other people don't agree with me, that's the demand and there just simply is not enough supply to keep up with the demand most of the year.
ETA: I have found myself just walking and playing goat ranch shite holes alot more and going to the range alot less. At least if I walk on a course with GPS I can get more accurate yardage info. Every now and then I'll hit the range to work on something swing specific if I have something I am really struggling with but I unfortunately play more shitty courses now (listen to podcasts, sports talk radio, music, etc) and have a 3 hour practice session and limit nice courses ($60-$100) to maybe twice a month.
The bubble will burst, it always does, then prices will drop.
My suggestion is to follow as many of them as you can and keep an eye on their specials. Almost everywhere does it from time to time when they see a drop off. Some sort of local special or two for $____ or half off a round the month of your birthday, etc.
This post was edited on 2/3/23 at 6:27 am
Posted on 2/3/23 at 6:27 am to 0jersey
fricking clubcorp has raised dues 30% in the last two years with another 5% starting this year.
Pookie - let’s burn this motherfricker down
Pookie - let’s burn this motherfricker down
Posted on 2/3/23 at 6:46 am to 0jersey
My Torrey Pines South round next week will be $250 or so but that will include a set of rental clubs.
This post was edited on 2/3/23 at 6:47 am
Posted on 2/3/23 at 7:47 am to 0jersey
The only thing I’ve noticed recently when just going to hit balls on the range, most courses are charging $14-$16 for a bucket of balls which is double what I used to remember.
That seems a little ridiculous. It can’t cost much to maintain a bunch of shitty range balls.
That seems a little ridiculous. It can’t cost much to maintain a bunch of shitty range balls.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 8:19 am to BabyTac
Supply and demand.
Golf was a lifeline for many during pandemic. Many people played more. All youth sports ceased. Several people realized they enjoyed playing golf more. Kids took up the game.
I thought it would revert after things got opened back up, but so far it is sustaining. Other then a catastrophic economic depression, I don’t see rounds played trending down in the near future.
Golf was a lifeline for many during pandemic. Many people played more. All youth sports ceased. Several people realized they enjoyed playing golf more. Kids took up the game.
I thought it would revert after things got opened back up, but so far it is sustaining. Other then a catastrophic economic depression, I don’t see rounds played trending down in the near future.
Posted on 2/3/23 at 8:29 am to makersmark1
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