- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Why does the coach have to be a great offensive mind?
Posted on 10/17/16 at 11:40 am to SportTiger1
Posted on 10/17/16 at 11:40 am to SportTiger1
quote:
So what happens when Aranda leaves or the new OC leaves because of thier success at LSU?
You think it's that easy to go find elite replacements?
The top coaches in the country control one side of the ball (Saban-D, Urban-O, Harbaugh-O, Jimbo-O, Patterson-D, Petersen-O). When your HC can run one group, you dont have to have an elite Coordinator for that side.
Explain Pruitt to me please. You basically discount the coordinator on the side of the ball that the HC is "controlling". Then why did Saban hire a top 5 DC? Why would that even matter? Wouldn't he just want a yes man if he controls that side of the ball?
Or maybe....the OC & DC still need to be great if you want to win a national title regardless of the coaches area of expertise.
1
Posted on 10/17/16 at 11:49 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Explain Pruitt to me please. You basically discount the coordinator on the side of the ball that the HC is "controlling". Then why did Saban hire a top 5 DC? Why would that even matter? Wouldn't he just want a yes man if he controls that side of the ball?
You still hire the best you can, why wouldnt you?
But it's safe to say that all of sabans DC's that went elsewhere have never proven to be as good at defense as saban. Would you agree with that?
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:00 pm to SportTiger1
quote:
You still hire the best you can, why wouldnt you?
But it's safe to say that all of sabans DC's that went elsewhere have never proven to be as good at defense as saban. Would you agree with that?
Would I agree that no one is as good at defense as possibly one of the best defensive minds in our era? Yes, I agree lol
Point being: If Saban still puts a ton of value in his DC, then the argument that the HC "solves" one half of your coordinator issue is a little watered down.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:21 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
then the argument that the HC "solves" one half of your coordinator issue is a little watered down.
Maybe it's not full proof, nothing is in these scenarios.
But why is Urban's offense and Saban's defense pretty much the same scheme every year, under multiple coordinators?
It's painfully obvious that a HC coach with expertise makes it easier to find a coordinator to direct traffic.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:41 pm to SportTiger1
quote:
But why is Urban's offense and Saban's defense pretty much the same scheme every year, under multiple coordinators?
you are talking about 2 of the best of all time, but is the scheme the same? Saban ran a 4-3 here and 3-4 at Bama. His D will always be good, though it is worth noting the best HC among his past assistants have been OC's (Fisher, McElwain).
Posted on 10/17/16 at 12:58 pm to SportTiger1
quote:
So what happens when Aranda leaves or the new OC leaves because of thier success at LSU? You think it's that easy to go find elite replacements? The top coaches in the country control one side of the ball (Saban-D, Urban-O, Harbaugh-O, Jimbo-O, Patterson-D, Petersen-O). When your HC can run one group, you dont have to have an elite Coordinator for that side. And it's MUCH easier to find one good coordinator than it is two. O brings very little to the table from a scheming perspective, why not get a coach that you can rely on to out scheme the opponent?
And what are you going to do when your elite offensive or defensive minded coach leaves for the NFL? Elite coordinators are easier to find than elite head coaches. Keep in mind that the entire "keep CEO" argument revolves around him going undefeated or losing 1 game but beating Alabama. Otherwise, it's a non-issue hypothetical. If it happens then, do you suddenly label Ensminger "an elite offensive mind" ? What happened to the elite minds of Jimbo and Herman the last few games?
Posted on 10/17/16 at 1:48 pm to dos crystal
quote:
Please elaborate on this? I think most would agree that the four top coaches in the game today are Saban, Harbaugh, Meyer and Swinny. Three of the four have never been a coordinator.
You know what all four of them have in common though? They all crushed it with their first HC jobs.
If you do make that jump from position coach to HC, you better make it work. Coach O failed. So he's probably one of those guys that needs to be a coordinator before he's a HC.
For as long as he's been coaching, the fact that he's never been a coordinator is a red flag. One has to start wondering if he's even capable of handling that job on an intellectual level.
This post was edited on 10/17/16 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 10/17/16 at 2:31 pm to TigrrrDad
Because offense is what's winning now egghead. Look at the top 25 teams and tell me how many does the HC OR team specialize in offense and how many specialize in defense? Over 80%, and at least 70% of those teams run a form of spread.
Saban is a outlier as can almost be considered the GOAT HC in CFB, but even he has upgraded and puts a premium on offensive coaching (as noted by him grabbing up Sarkisian as a likely replacement to Lane).
LSU needs a Tom Herman or Chip Kelly type. A guy that can utilize all this Louisiana and Texas offensive talent.
Saban is a outlier as can almost be considered the GOAT HC in CFB, but even he has upgraded and puts a premium on offensive coaching (as noted by him grabbing up Sarkisian as a likely replacement to Lane).
LSU needs a Tom Herman or Chip Kelly type. A guy that can utilize all this Louisiana and Texas offensive talent.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 2:38 pm to TigrrrDad
quote:
What happened to the elite minds of Jimbo and Herman the last few games?
Points in Losses
FSU
20 vs Louisville
35 vs NC
Houston
40 vs Navy
Other than the game vs Louisville, doesn't look like offense is the problem here. If we score 35 every game, we'd win 95% of them.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 2:46 pm to TigrrrDad
quote:
And what are you going to do when your elite offensive or defensive minded coach leaves for the NFL? Elite coordinators are easier to find than elite head coaches
Isn't that a risk you HAVE to take? So you want to screw ourselves just so we dont lose someone to the NFL?
quote:
If it happens then, do you suddenly label Ensminger "an elite offensive mind" ?
Absolutely not. He has a LOADED LSU football team that is juiced up with emotion because of the current circumstances.
quote:
What happened to the elite minds of Jimbo and Herman the last few games?
Much like O, i'm not judging coaches based on a few games that go either way. You judge based on the entire resume.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 3:32 pm to SportTiger1
Lets just throw things around here...what if we average say 35 pts the remainder of the season. We hire O.
Do you not seriously consider keeping Ensminger as OC assuming he would want the job?
Do you not seriously consider keeping Ensminger as OC assuming he would want the job?
Posted on 10/17/16 at 4:00 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Lets just throw things around here...what if we average say 35 pts the remainder of the season. We hire O.
Do you not seriously consider keeping Ensminger as OC assuming he would want the job?
No. No NO NO NOOO NOOOOOO
Posted on 10/17/16 at 4:19 pm to dos crystal
quote:
Please elaborate on this? I think most would agree that the four top coaches in the game today are Saban, Harbaugh, Meyer and Swinny.
Three of the four have never been a coordinator.
Not technically true.
Dabo became the OC when he became the Interim HC in 2008, so he had both jobs.
Saban has been a DC twice, in the NCAA at Mich State and with the Browns.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 4:45 pm to Mickey Goldmill
Let's say you're the CEO of a company and you had 2 candidates to pick from to run your company.
Candidate A : Demoted from VP to manager position due to several poor fiscal years. Does well at manager position, department has high morale.
Candidate B : Current VP of competitor, achieving success at each previous position. Responsible for one of the highest profit margins in industry over the past few fiscal years.
Oh, also Candidate A talks like we do.
Candidate A : Demoted from VP to manager position due to several poor fiscal years. Does well at manager position, department has high morale.
Candidate B : Current VP of competitor, achieving success at each previous position. Responsible for one of the highest profit margins in industry over the past few fiscal years.
Oh, also Candidate A talks like we do.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 4:49 pm to 7nette
quote:
Oh, also Candidate A talks like we do.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 5:47 pm to BilJ
quote:
the only person that's a legit comparison would be Dabo.
who's the 4th coach better than swinny at this time? I said three out of the top four coaches today. Not Swinny is nick saban or urban meyer.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 5:51 pm to dos crystal
quote:
who's the 4th coach better than swinny at this time?
Gary Patterson, Mark Dantonio, and Chris Petersen.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 6:02 pm to dos crystal
It was more about how dumb it was to say "well some of these guys weren't coordinators "
Come on...
Come on...
Posted on 10/17/16 at 6:22 pm to BilJ
I thought about pointing out Saban actually was a coordinator (in the pros) and decided it wasn't worth debating someone with that point of view.
Posted on 10/17/16 at 7:45 pm to TigrrrDad
quote:I'm not sure who's saying this really.
I've heard it argued repeatedly that we can't keep Coach O because we need a coach that is a "great or progressive offensive mind"
quote:Because he was not good at coordinating. It was in the best interest of the team for him to not meddle.
it seems that the most repeated knock on Les was that he wouldn't get out of the way and let his coordinators do their job.
quote:Nothing. Results are the most important thing.
What's wrong with the head coach being a great general manager and, above all, a great recruiter, who has coordinators who are great offensive and defensive minds?
quote:Because CEO doesn't have successful results. If CEO goes to a smaller program to prove himself with his style over some time, I'm in. But as of right now, he was given three years at Ole Miss and has a combined THREE SEC wins. Even at USC he only beat one ranked team. Now it was a HUGE win against Stanford, but it's really the only big win he has. I'll bet that you didn't know it was his only win against a ranked opponent. Think about that for a second.
A head coach who is a CEO, if you will...
Now, that may all change this year, but I for one am not going to even consider talking about O as a permanent solution without him proving something. No, I will not say “Well, hypothetically, what if we win out!”. It’s a stupid, nonsensical thing to even think about right now, IMO. We need to think about getting a decent win this season over a good opponent first.
For me, it’s not about a great offensive or defensive mind. I don’t really know who is the best choice. But I do know that we can’t even think about hiring a guy with three SEC wins in three seasons and only one win over a ranked opponent. So you should understand why some of us are hesitant to even consider O right now. We can't fire a guy who was our winningest coach in history to hire O.
For comparison, Tom Herman has had five wins over ranked opponents in his one and a half years of coaching alone. And at Houston, mind you. They finished ranked in the 70s and 90s in recruiting the two years before his arrival. (BTW, they finished 41st in his first year and are currently ranked 26. Not a bad improvement.). And I'm not saying I think he's the number one choice, I just wanted to give you an example of one of the other candidates we're looking at.
Page 2 of 3
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News