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re: Crackpot ASOIAF Theories SPOILERS
Posted on 8/29/12 at 12:33 pm to DestrehanTiger
Posted on 8/29/12 at 12:33 pm to DestrehanTiger
Maybe so. It just seems like it's a term that hasn't been used that loosely in the realm up to this point. Most (I want to say all but can't say that with certainty) of the times we've seen it used it's been for the man that swung the sword themselves so to speak. Especially since you could call several other characters kinslayers based on the cause and effect connotation we're attaching to it in this case.
Like I said, cool theory but I don't necessarily buy it (and I've mulled over it quite a bit so I'm not going to get convinced otherwise
).
Like I said, cool theory but I don't necessarily buy it (and I've mulled over it quite a bit so I'm not going to get convinced otherwise
).This post was edited on 8/29/12 at 12:35 pm
1
Posted on 8/29/12 at 12:44 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
of the times we've seen it used it's been for the man that swung the sword themselves so to speak.
When Bloodravens archers, The Ravens Teeth, killed his half brother Daemon Blackfyre and his sons which earned him the name of Kinslayer. Who actually loosed those arrows of course can't be known yet Bloodraven was considered a Kinslayer all the same.
And I don't think anyone else considers Theon a kinslayer outside of himself.
This post was edited on 8/29/12 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 8/29/12 at 12:48 pm to CottonWasKing
Yeah but Bloodraven is know for his weirwood bow so that's not exactly a stretch IMO.
If I recall correctly there's a few times he's been called a kinslayer (or something similar) post-Winterfell sacking. I could very easily see a Stark supporter calling him that if they don't know Bran and Rickon are alive.
ETA: I think one of the spear wives specifically calls him Theon Kinslayer.
If I recall correctly there's a few times he's been called a kinslayer (or something similar) post-Winterfell sacking. I could very easily see a Stark supporter calling him that if they don't know Bran and Rickon are alive.
ETA: I think one of the spear wives specifically calls him Theon Kinslayer.
This post was edited on 8/29/12 at 12:50 pm
Posted on 8/29/12 at 12:51 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Yeah but Bloodraven is know for his weirwood bow so that's not exactly a stretch IMO.
And Theon is known to have captured Winterfell and led to it being sacked. (No he didn't sack it but if he doesn't take Winterfell it would not have been sacked).
quote:
If I recall correctly there's a few times he's been called a kinslayer (or something similar) post-Winterfell sacking. I could very easily see a Stark supporter calling him that if they don't know Bran and Rickon are alive.
Possibly I don't remember however if others see Theon as a kinslayer why wouldn't he see himself the same way?
Posted on 8/29/12 at 12:54 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
And Theon is known to have captured Winterfell and led to it being sacked. (No he didn't sack it but if he doesn't take Winterfell it would not have been sacked).
But he then tried to redeem himself by making sure Bran and Rickon got out alive. The kinslayer bit is generally assigned to those who are kin (even his own family considers the Starks now Theon's kin). Not the stable boy that got slaughtered in a sacking.
quote:
Possibly I don't remember however if others see Theon as a kinslayer why wouldn't he see himself the same way?
People who don't know Bran and Rickon are alive (which is basically everyone except a handful of people)? He knows he didn't kill them. He actually tried to do just the opposite.
This post was edited on 8/29/12 at 12:59 pm
Posted on 8/29/12 at 12:57 pm to BluegrassBelle
Also, Theon before becoming Reek was very very adamant in establishing that the Starks are not his kin and that he's a Greyjoy. I can see outsiders viewing him as a kinslayer because even his own family argued that he's essentially now a Stark.
Like I said, I'm not going to get convinced otherwise so we should probably just agree to disagree and move on from this one.
Like I said, I'm not going to get convinced otherwise so we should probably just agree to disagree and move on from this one.
Posted on 8/29/12 at 12:59 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
But he then tried to redeem himself by making sure Bran and Rickon got out alive.
How did he do that? I thought i remember him basically giving up on the search and using the miller boys as a replacement. It worked out that they got out alive because of Theon, but that wasn't his intention.
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:03 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
How did he do that? I thought i remember him basically giving up on the search and using the miller boys as a replacement. It worked out that they got out alive because of Theon, but that wasn't his intention.
True. I was thinking he let them go through his intentional floundering (because he didn't have the nads to kill them or hunt them down). It's been awhile since I read it.
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:15 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Also, Theon before becoming Reek was very very adamant in establishing that the Starks are not his kin and that he's a Greyjoy. I can see outsiders viewing him as a kinslayer because even his own family argued that he's essentially now a Stark.
So adamant that it makes you wonder who he was trying to convince. It damn sure wasn't the Iron Born words will prove nothing to them, yet he said it over and over.
He was trying to convince himself. Trying to justify his actions and betrayal of Robb Stark the only brother he ever knew.
Theon just wanted to be someone, he found that place at Robb's side. Then he gave that up to try to please his father though he has now come to the realization that he could have never done that and he regrets his actions. He is now going back and looking at all his actions and realizing the part he played in the downfall of the Starks, the only family he ever really had, and he feels guilt. Hence the kinslaying tag he has subconsciously bestowed upon himself.
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:16 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:
If this has been discussed in the past 57 pages, let me know, but let's talk about Dany's next move. What does everyone think will happen with the khalasar that just confronted her? Are they her new army that will crush the Yunkai?
I would love to see her roast (literally) Khal Jhaqo's arse after they raped the girl Dany saved out of spite and then take over the Khalasar. I could get back on the Dany train if that goes down.
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:17 pm to CottonWasKing
Like I said, I don't buy it. Agreeing to disagree on this one.
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:17 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
"It was a cruel fate, Yet not so cruel as Mago's will be. I promise you that, by the old gods and the new, by the lamb god and the horse god and every god that lives. I swear by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh." [
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:18 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
we should probably just agree to disagree and move on from this one.
Not until I have posted by 50 Part Essay on Theon as the Hooded Man.
Part I:
It could be the Hooded Theon is completely unaware of his AlterReek self. Thus, when he speaks to AlterReek, he sees that personality as the rest of the world does: a kinslayer.
Also, Tyrion refers to himself as a kingslayer, which he is not.
[Since this is a GRRM thread, check back in 5 years for Part II of this essay.]
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:21 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
[Since this is a GRRM thread, check back in 5 years for Part II of this essay.]
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:24 pm to CottonWasKing
quote:
"It was a cruel fate, Yet not so cruel as Mago's will be. I promise you that, by the old gods and the new, by the lamb god and the horse god and every god that lives. I swear by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh."
Nice quote. I love it; forgot all about this.
Dany's very first word in TWOW could be "dracarys"!
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:28 pm to jrodLSUke
quote:
Dany's very first word in TWOW could be "dracarys"!
What I would like to happen.
What will probably happen? Dany starts rambling about "My name is Daenerys Stormborn blah blah blah", passes out, and ends up captive despite having A BIG frickING DRAGON at her disposal. We then have to read a book of her crossing the Dothraki sea back to Vaes Dothrak where she was supposed to go as a widowed Khaleesi.
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:41 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
A BIG frickING DRAGON STANDING RIGHT NEXT TO HER
Please, not another walk across the continent of Essos.
Dany, "my dragon is too scary. Lets chain him to an ox cart and pull him to Westeros".
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:45 pm to jrodLSUke
frick if those dragons had any sense at all they'd leave her arse and go join up with Aegon or Jon.
I've never had a main character make me so angry. Apparently GRRM loves her character but he's made me loathe her in the worst way. The show hasn't helped matters either.
I've never had a main character make me so angry. Apparently GRRM loves her character but he's made me loathe her in the worst way. The show hasn't helped matters either.
Posted on 8/29/12 at 1:59 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
frick if those dragons had any sense at all they'd leave her arse and go join up with Aegon or Jon.
Yea but GRRM hates me so that can't happen
Posted on 8/29/12 at 2:03 pm to CottonWasKing
Of all the characters to get three dragons, Dany was the worst choice.
Arya would have burned King's Landing into obsidian by now.
Arya would have burned King's Landing into obsidian by now.
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