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How Germany's awful Euro 2000 forced a mass restructure
Posted on 7/19/16 at 6:07 pm
Posted on 7/19/16 at 6:07 pm
LINK
A very good article which highlights things I've been following for a while (the first Uli Hesse, or Uli Hesse-Lichtenberger as he publishing then, I read about this was from 2009, right around Germany's win in the U21 Euros).
I'd really love for MLS to copy this model, but I fear, like all things related to soccer, they are going to follow the English model, which for me is destined for complete and utter failure.
A very good article which highlights things I've been following for a while (the first Uli Hesse, or Uli Hesse-Lichtenberger as he publishing then, I read about this was from 2009, right around Germany's win in the U21 Euros).
I'd really love for MLS to copy this model, but I fear, like all things related to soccer, they are going to follow the English model, which for me is destined for complete and utter failure.
This post was edited on 7/19/16 at 6:07 pm
1
Posted on 7/19/16 at 6:08 pm to crazy4lsu
Americans really need to rid themselves of English influences. I remember being a kid and all select teams were looking for British coaches, thinking that was the only way to get top notch instruction. I sure hope that's changed.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 6:14 pm to hendersonshands
I couldn't agree more. I wish there were more of an effort to import Dutch coaches, as a lot of people in the country seem to be able to speak English.
I hate the top-down structure of MLS at the moment. The franchise model is a very stupid one for soccer in general. I would love if community owned clubs became a thing.
I hate the top-down structure of MLS at the moment. The franchise model is a very stupid one for soccer in general. I would love if community owned clubs became a thing.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 6:44 pm to crazy4lsu
The Dutch speak better English than most people here in our state.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 6:47 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
The franchise model is a very stupid one for soccer in general. I would love if community owned clubs became a thing.
The franchise model/single entity has provided stability for a league that has to compete against four other major professional leagues and every popular college sport. I don't know if it's possible to transition away from it, but I hope we find a way to do so.
Are there any true community owned clubs in the major European soccer leagues? How does that even work, money wise?
Posted on 7/19/16 at 6:56 pm to cwil177
quote:
Are there any true community owned clubs in the major European soccer leagues? How does that even work, money wise?
I think there are teams in the German league that are fan owned. I want to say Hamburg or Hertha is still fan-owned, and they have a hell of a time in terms of arguments with their board and fans.
Arsenal used to be fan owned. I imagine you could structure it in like shares of a business, or a co-op. The incentive for fan-owned clubs is that it is focused on the area the club operates. It is the essence of grass-roots.
The franchise model is stable but it also offers very little incentive to develop talent, as it will always be quicker to buy talent from abroad. Developing talent takes a decade long commitment.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 7:12 pm to crazy4lsu
How do you think other models encourage talent more so than the franchise model? I can see grass-roots having the advantage of "local boys" becoming the stars of the team, but that can still be the case with MLS franchises with academies (except maybe RSL, whose academy is in AZ).
It seems to me that the franchise teams will still have a monetary incentive to develop players. I would think it's single entity, since profits are shared to an extent, that would hinder youth development more. If you can't earn the full transfer fee from selling players you develop, it would certainly discourage some teams from putting as much stock in an academy. That said, I think the academy system in the US is growing and advancing. Some of it is thanks to MLS. I really wonder what Jurgen's impact is going to be on the system. Hopefully a net positive, for the sake of our future national teams.
It seems to me that the franchise teams will still have a monetary incentive to develop players. I would think it's single entity, since profits are shared to an extent, that would hinder youth development more. If you can't earn the full transfer fee from selling players you develop, it would certainly discourage some teams from putting as much stock in an academy. That said, I think the academy system in the US is growing and advancing. Some of it is thanks to MLS. I really wonder what Jurgen's impact is going to be on the system. Hopefully a net positive, for the sake of our future national teams.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 7:45 pm to cwil177
I think Berti Vogts will be more important than Klinsmann. He was the one in the 90s who recognized the lack of talent and tried to implement steps to fix it.
This is the biggest problem. Teams need to be independent enough to manage their own finances. At the same time, a top down approach that the DFB implemented could work here. The organization made the professional club teams under them de facto academies for the national team. At the moment it doesn't seem to work that way for the MLS.
quote:
It seems to me that the franchise teams will still have a monetary incentive to develop players. I would think it's single entity, since profits are shared to an extent, that would hinder youth development more. If you can't earn the full transfer fee from selling players you develop, it would certainly discourage some teams from putting as much stock in an academy.
This is the biggest problem. Teams need to be independent enough to manage their own finances. At the same time, a top down approach that the DFB implemented could work here. The organization made the professional club teams under them de facto academies for the national team. At the moment it doesn't seem to work that way for the MLS.
Posted on 7/19/16 at 8:08 pm to crazy4lsu
That would be cool. How did they make that happen? Any way MLS could do that here?
Posted on 7/19/16 at 8:44 pm to cwil177
I don't think it will happen here. The US has a fundamental problem with fan-ownership. We'd have to start a whole new league outside the USSF structure.
In terms of de facto academies, include in the massive amount of money teams have to put up to get teams a clause that says they must put a certain amount of money, have a certain amount of coaches, and a certain amount of hours for the clubs to retain professional status.
In terms of de facto academies, include in the massive amount of money teams have to put up to get teams a clause that says they must put a certain amount of money, have a certain amount of coaches, and a certain amount of hours for the clubs to retain professional status.
This post was edited on 7/19/16 at 8:45 pm
Posted on 7/19/16 at 9:08 pm to crazy4lsu
This is a lot easier to implement in football-crazed Germany where football is the #1, #2 and #3 sport in the country.
Posted on 7/20/16 at 3:30 am to cwil177
quote:
The franchise model/single entity has provided stability for a league that has to compete against four other major professional leagues and every popular college sport. I don't know if it's possible to transition away from it, but I hope we find a way to do so.
that ship has sailed with the MLS.
quote:
Are there any true community owned clubs in the major European soccer leagues? How does that even work, money wise?
Yes in Germany with the 50+1 so basically every club.
Also Barca and Real Madrid are two examples of huge clubs where the fans basically own the club.
Money is managed by a board who is elected by the fans who pay membership fees. Hence why the Red Bull thing is a shite show.
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