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Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:13 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
Fwiw, I don't think Bayern and Arsenal are all that similar.
They aren't. What I meant to imply is that Wenger was inspired by Bayern this season to mimic their style as closely as he could. Hence the interest in Fellaini, who is unlike midfielders that Wenger generally targets.
Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:19 pm to crazy4lsu
Gotcha. Jupp's pressing/counter-pressing was a big reason why Bayern was so good this year. Arsenal could use a little more aggression in midfield. Also, pressing from the front was a big part of Bayern's defense. It's why Jupp preferred Mandzo over Gomez. I don't know the kind of work rate Higuain has on defense but that may be why Arsene is interested.
Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:26 pm to hendersonshands
although it would mean the end of Arteta, Rambo or Jack and Fellaini as the deep midfield pair would be intriguing. I hope that's where AW intends to play him, if he really is interested. otherwise, I'm not a fan.
Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:27 pm to hendersonshands
Interestingly enough it was after we beat Bayern that we started pressing from the front consistently and went unbeaten.
Wenger loves the false press, and that works rather often, though we will have a lapse where no one presses, giving time on the ball to a midfielder who can pick a pass.
Giroud would actually be the perfect striker for our system since he presses well, works the channels, runs beyond the CB, holds the ball, and can deliver some excellent flick-ons and passes, but he's rather wasteful in front of goal. If he could score we might not be in the market for a big name striker. Also he's slow as shite.
Of course, I'm only guessing that Wenger is inspired by Bayern. It's the only way to explain his interest in Fellaini, as he might see him as a poor man's Javi Martinez. But Javi is superb in the short passing game, and is positionally astute. Fellaini's game is not all that similar.
Wenger loves the false press, and that works rather often, though we will have a lapse where no one presses, giving time on the ball to a midfielder who can pick a pass.
Giroud would actually be the perfect striker for our system since he presses well, works the channels, runs beyond the CB, holds the ball, and can deliver some excellent flick-ons and passes, but he's rather wasteful in front of goal. If he could score we might not be in the market for a big name striker. Also he's slow as shite.
Of course, I'm only guessing that Wenger is inspired by Bayern. It's the only way to explain his interest in Fellaini, as he might see him as a poor man's Javi Martinez. But Javi is superb in the short passing game, and is positionally astute. Fellaini's game is not all that similar.
Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:30 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
although it would mean the end of Arteta, Rambo or Jack and Fellaini as the deep midfield pair would be intriguing. I hope that's where AW intends to play him, if he really is interested. otherwise, I'm not a fan.
Yup. Arteta was never a long term solution, and he was sort of our of his element at DM. He was never out of position, but he wasn't a good tackler. He committed 2.2 fouls per game for a total of 79, which is nearly twice what he committed when he was paired with Song. On the ball he was absolutely superb, but he became better when he had Ramsey next to him running around pressing anyone who had the ball.
I should edit to add that Arteta did have 3.2 tackles per game, which shows he's a better tackler than I give him credit for. I should say he's not a natural tackler, and perhaps gave away too many fouls when he shouldn't have. He was an excellent tactical fouler, but asking him to do that isn't really getting his best in my opinion.
This post was edited on 6/13/13 at 12:34 pm
Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:47 pm to crazy4lsu
Sky Italy reports bvb and real agreed to a 30m euro fee for Lewa, he rejected the move.
CR7 came out and said he has not signed a new contract with Real for whatever that is worth
CR7 came out and said he has not signed a new contract with Real for whatever that is worth
Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:50 pm to Friend of OBUDan
Holding out for a Premier League club?
Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:51 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
Sky Italy reports bvb and real agreed to a 30m euro fee for Lewa, he rejected the move.
Pouting he can't go to Baynern?
Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:54 pm to crazy4lsu
The pressing by Bundesliga teams was very impressive this season. Everyone had always said that the way to defeat Barcelona was to press them high and cut out the passing lanes but the problem is that teams that tried this would always get stretched and would press wildly, which played right into Barcelona's hands and you would see one slick ball and Messi killing the space behind the defense.
Something that Bayern and BVB, in particular, did so well was press in an organized way -- much like Barcelona under Pep. If you watched the Bayern - Barca tie, you'll see Barca keeping possession around the back end of the middle third or in their own defensive third. Bayern pressed high but never to the point of becoming wild. It was very robotic/German.
Another benefit of being so organized in the press was that Schweiny or Javi could cut off a pass by just poking it in a direction where they knew they had a team mate; that's how a lot of Bayern's counter attacks started.
I think Bayern got even better defensively when Müller moved central after Kroos' injury because he's such a disciplined hard worker who was actually the one who would press high with Mandzo dropping in, whereas with Kroos, Mandzo would get high up the field and Kroos would drop into space to try to intercept a pass, start a counter.
Theoretically, Poldi should be very good at this pressing because he is hard working, athletic guy but he often has brain farts that will cost him. The point of my diatribe is that if Arsenal wanted to play this way, a high priced striker isn't that necessary. Mandzo didn't finish as well as Gomez but he brought more to the team defensively which led to more goals in a roundabout way. I think I read right that Mandzo had one of the worst conversion rates of a Bayern striker in the last few years.
While Higuain might work hard, spending that kind of money on a striker isn't very necessary. i'd prefer to spend it on a midfielder who understands this concept and is good on a break. Nicolai Müller from FSV Mainz comes to mind.
Something that Bayern and BVB, in particular, did so well was press in an organized way -- much like Barcelona under Pep. If you watched the Bayern - Barca tie, you'll see Barca keeping possession around the back end of the middle third or in their own defensive third. Bayern pressed high but never to the point of becoming wild. It was very robotic/German.
Another benefit of being so organized in the press was that Schweiny or Javi could cut off a pass by just poking it in a direction where they knew they had a team mate; that's how a lot of Bayern's counter attacks started.
I think Bayern got even better defensively when Müller moved central after Kroos' injury because he's such a disciplined hard worker who was actually the one who would press high with Mandzo dropping in, whereas with Kroos, Mandzo would get high up the field and Kroos would drop into space to try to intercept a pass, start a counter.
Theoretically, Poldi should be very good at this pressing because he is hard working, athletic guy but he often has brain farts that will cost him. The point of my diatribe is that if Arsenal wanted to play this way, a high priced striker isn't that necessary. Mandzo didn't finish as well as Gomez but he brought more to the team defensively which led to more goals in a roundabout way. I think I read right that Mandzo had one of the worst conversion rates of a Bayern striker in the last few years.
While Higuain might work hard, spending that kind of money on a striker isn't very necessary. i'd prefer to spend it on a midfielder who understands this concept and is good on a break. Nicolai Müller from FSV Mainz comes to mind.
Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:57 pm to WarSlamEagle
holding out for Bayern, I imagine. this will get ugly, it seems. lewa supposedly rejected a pay bump from BVB for the final year of his contract. he wants out and only Bayern...
Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:58 pm to RandySavage
His situation is a lot like Modric's when Chelsea put in a bid for him. Modric claimed to have been promised by Spurs that if a a reasonable offer from a big club came, he could go. Spurs refused to sell to Chelsea, so Modric claimed they broke a promise.
Lewa apparently had an agreement with BVB to sell him to Bayern but that was before Bayern activated Götze's release clause. So he's pissed now and saying they broke a promise.
Lewa apparently had an agreement with BVB to sell him to Bayern but that was before Bayern activated Götze's release clause. So he's pissed now and saying they broke a promise.
Posted on 6/13/13 at 12:59 pm to hendersonshands
poldi has a rep at Arsenal of being lazy, though I think it's largely undeserved. he's pretty good at pressing, not great at tracking back
Posted on 6/13/13 at 1:00 pm to Friend of OBUDan
He's definitely not lazy, just kind of dumb I think. He often loses track of the game. A lot of goals Germany gives up is because Poldi gets caught up field and realizes his man has left him way too late. You'll see him coming into the frame on a breakaway right as the ball is hitting the back of the net.
Posted on 6/13/13 at 1:01 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
The point of my diatribe is that if Arsenal wanted to play this way, a high priced striker isn't that necessary
I agree completely. What we need is some defensive instruction. Sometimes we false press, sometimes we stand off, sometimes we press as a team, but we vary so often that eventually someone is going to commit a mistake, which we saw this season as we conceded more goals from individual mistakes than any team in the PL. If we are going to press, then press. I'd rather do away with the false pressing completely.
Posted on 6/13/13 at 1:02 pm to Friend of OBUDan
quote:
holding out for Bayern, I imagine. this will get ugly, it seems. lewa supposedly rejected a pay bump from BVB for the final year of his contract. he wants out and only Bayern...
I hope he sucks arse this year while he pouts, if they even let him play, and Bayern signs some badass next year and he's left with his dick in his hand and ends up at Fenerbache or some European dump outpost.
This post was edited on 6/13/13 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 6/13/13 at 1:05 pm to crazy4lsu
Bayern pressed with no offsides trap, which is pretty different than most pressing teams. I think that cuts down on a lot of individual mistakes from defenders not stepping or stepping when they shouldn't.
When Boateng played, he pressed high because he's probably the fastest center back in Europe so if he got beat, Dante could cut down a passing lane while he got back. I don't know if there's an athlete like that playing center back for Arsenal but I think abandoning the offsides trap is definitely something Arsene should look into.
When Boateng played, he pressed high because he's probably the fastest center back in Europe so if he got beat, Dante could cut down a passing lane while he got back. I don't know if there's an athlete like that playing center back for Arsenal but I think abandoning the offsides trap is definitely something Arsene should look into.
Posted on 6/13/13 at 1:10 pm to hendersonshands
quote:
I don't know if there's an athlete like that playing center back for Arsenal but I think abandoning the offsides trap is definitely something Arsene should look into.
Koscielny has excellent make up speed. It will be difficult to implement a pressing system that doesn't rely on the offside trap, as we are a pretty good team at catching the opposition offside. I'm not sure if Wenger wants to give that up. I don't think he minds defending deep and playing on the counter, hell, that's exactly what he brought to Arsenal in the first place, but he doesn't want to ever give up the flair. In the first three games of the PL season we defended deep and played on the counter, but we only scored two goals. Gradually as the season wore on we sacrificed defensive rigidity for offensive flair, and in the end weren't particularly good at either, though by the end of the season we could score and defend, although the games were by no means attractive. Wenger has to make a trade-off, which he seems reluctant to do.
Posted on 6/13/13 at 1:10 pm to hendersonshands
kos has pretty great speed for a CB. tv5 too, but his errors are rarely offsides trap based 
Posted on 6/13/13 at 1:13 pm to Friend of OBUDan
Yeah the TV5-LK6 combo would work spectacularly if they were both positionally astute. The best game we ever got out of those two was the Everton game away in 2011-2012, where we dominated for 20 minutes until Fellaini moved back to midfield. We pressed, kept the space compact, won the ball high up the field, and had plenty of pace to play the offside trap. Mertesacker is so much more postionally aware than any of our other CB's that I don't mind that he can hardly pick a pass, or if he has no make up speed.
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