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Message
Why United Was Legally Wrong To Deplane Dr. Dao
Posted on 4/16/17 at 10:51 am
Posted on 4/16/17 at 10:51 am
quote:
Why United Was Legally Wrong To Deplane Dr. Dao
By Jens David Ohlin
4/13/17 at 9:42 AM
On Sunday, United Airlines passenger David Dao was forcibly removed from his United Airlines flight when he refused to relinquish his seat. The police officers who removed him from the seat, then dragged him down the aisle of the airplane. Videos of the incident show a visibly injured and bloodied Dao screaming.
......
Like all airlines, United has a very specific (and lengthy!) contract for carriage outlining the contractual relationship between the airline and the passenger. It includes a familiar set of provisions for when a passenger may be denied boarding (Rule 25: “Denied Boarding Compensation”).
When a flight is oversold, UA can deny boarding to some passengers, who then receive compensation under specific guidelines. However, Dao was not denied boarding. He was granted boarding and then involuntarily removed from the airplane. What does the contract say about that?
It turns out that the contract has a specific rule regarding “Refusal of Transport” (Rule 21), which lays out the conditions under which a passenger can be removed and refused transport on the aircraft. This includes situations where passengers act in a “disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent” manner, refuse to comply with the smoking policy, are barefoot or “not properly clothed,” as well as many other situations.
There is absolutely no provision for deplaning a seated passenger because the flight is oversold.
An added complication here is that the flight wasn’t even oversold. The contract defines an oversold flight as “a flight where there are more Passengers holding valid confirmed Tickets that check-in for the flight within the prescribed check-in time than there are available seats.”
In this case, the airline attempted to remove seated passengers to make room for airline staff requiring transport to another airport, not because it had sold more tickets than there were seats available. . . .
LINK
19
Posted on 4/16/17 at 10:53 am to NC_Tigah
United was wrong....
...but Newsweek? Seriously?
...but Newsweek? Seriously?
Posted on 4/16/17 at 10:55 am to NC_Tigah
I would imagine the loophole is that the Captain of the airplane is given wide latitude and can remove anyone from the airplane whenever he sees fit.
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:06 am to member12
quote:Jens David Ohlin is associate dean for academic affairs and professor of law at Cornell Law School
...but Newsweek? Seriously?
But don't just take his word for it.
Here is a UChicago Law Prof saying the same thing:
quote:
David Dao Versus United: What Does The Airline Contract Say?
By Omri Ben-Shaha, University of Chicago
April 14, 2017
We read this contract, and discovered a surprise. Surely, you’d think, United’s lawyers worked hard to draft a contract that would allow United to demand passengers on oversold flights to surrender their seats, as the airline did prior to the infamous flight. The lawyers certainly tried. But, astonishingly, it’s not clear that they succeeded.
The contract has a hopelessly long paragraph bearing the title “Denied Boarding” that explains, in a nutshell, that “if a flight is oversold [. . . and] there are not enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily.” It defines an “oversold flight” as one “where there are more passengers holding valid confirmed tickets that check-in for the flight within the prescribed check-in time than there are available seats.”
The problem for United is that flight 3411 to Louisville was not really oversold. All passengers checked in and the flight was full and ready to go, when four United employees—the crew of another plane—arrived and needed to be accommodated. Are they “passengers”? The contract itself defines “passenger” as “any person, except members of the crew, holding a confirmed reservation.” So are these four employees “members of the crew”? Were they holding “a confirmed reservation”? Were they “passengers holding valid confirmed tickets that checked in within the prescribed check-in time”?
United has another contractual problem. Even if the flight was oversold, the contract only allows the airline to “deny boarding.” But Dr. Dao was not denied boarding. Rather, he was allowed to board. Is United entitled under the boarding-denial provision to also remove a boarded passenger from a window seat?
United may be wise to settle quickly with Dao, but what if other passengers who in the past were de-boarded from other United flights banded together and joined a class action for breach of the contract? Lawyers would then spend thousands of billable hours fighting over the meaning of these words in the contract. They will dig up legal precedents on the interpretation of similar words in similar contexts. They will try to convince courts to interpret the contract in a way favorable to their clients.
LINK
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:09 am to NC_Tigah
United has the option to break its contract and order anyone to get off its plane. They will owe damages to anyone they break the contract with, but no one has an inalienable right to occupy or use someone else's property.
If you enter into an agreement to purchase someone's home and at the last minute the seller breaks the contract, you can't just move your shite into their house.
If you enter into an agreement to purchase someone's home and at the last minute the seller breaks the contract, you can't just move your shite into their house.
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:11 am to NC_Tigah
Well I think originally they were wrong. But then the doctor started being belligerent and people get kicked off planes every day for that.
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:11 am to NC_Tigah
quote:they would end up w/diddley while some lawyers got rich
what if other passengers who in the past were de-boarded from other United flights banded together and joined a class action
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:14 am to NC_Tigah
Those are two extremely liberal professors and political contributors. I agree with them, but I'm surprised to see them referenced here.
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:14 am to Kafka
quote:
what if other passengers who in the past were de-boarded from other United flights banded together and joined a class action
What if? frick United.
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:15 am to Jon Ham
quote:
If you enter into an agreement to purchase someone's home and at the last minute the seller breaks the contract, you can't just move your shite into their house.
It depends when in the process you're talking about.
After papers are signed, the buyer certainly could do that.
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:18 am to JG77056
quote:Actually, as cited, the doctor was completely calm until he was assaulted by security.
But then the doctor started being belligerent
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:18 am to KosmoCramer
Not always. Depends on the terms and many other variables.
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:19 am to NC_Tigah
Why not just hold an auction for deplaning? Everyone on a plane does not value the experience the same.
If Bob is flying to an interview in Silicon Valley for a huge paying job he's not taking $1,000 to give up his ticket.
If Mary and Bill are going to Cancun for their honeymoon they'll take $500 and reschedule for next week.
If Joe is flying to his Aunt Mary's funeral and he's pissed that she didn't mention him in the will he'll take $100 to get off the plane and have a great excuse for not showing up.
If Bob is flying to an interview in Silicon Valley for a huge paying job he's not taking $1,000 to give up his ticket.
If Mary and Bill are going to Cancun for their honeymoon they'll take $500 and reschedule for next week.
If Joe is flying to his Aunt Mary's funeral and he's pissed that she didn't mention him in the will he'll take $100 to get off the plane and have a great excuse for not showing up.
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:21 am to Argonaut
quote:
Not always. Depends on the terms and many other variables.
If I arrive with my stuff and move in, then shortly after the previous owner demands I move back out, that's gonna be a significant issue for the previous owner and they have very little legal recourse with any decent contract.
This post was edited on 4/16/17 at 11:23 am
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:24 am to KosmoCramer
If you arrive with your stuff and move in before being permitted to do so, they can certainly make you vacate and could terminate the contract. "Signing papers" doesn't always give you permission to move in.
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:25 am to NC_Tigah
interesting info, I had been confident that the airline was well within their rights, this article is making me re-think that
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:26 am to KosmoCramer
quote:
If you enter into an agreement to purchase someone's home and at the last minute the seller breaks the contract, you can't just move your shite into their house.
quote:
It depends when in the process you're talking about. After papers are signed, the buyer certainly could do that.
Also, verbal contract.
This post was edited on 4/16/17 at 11:28 am
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:26 am to Argonaut
It's a dumb comparison because they're so different.
But they let the guy board, that's basically like the agreed upon move in date.
But they let the guy board, that's basically like the agreed upon move in date.
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:28 am to KosmoCramer
quote:Hell. It's like deciding AFTER they moved in legally
dumb comparison because they're so different.
But they let the guy board, that's basically like the agreed upon move in date.
Posted on 4/16/17 at 11:31 am to Jon Ham
quote:But if you lease your home and allow occupancy, the lessee attains usage rights.
If you enter into an agreement to purchase someone's home and at the last minute the seller breaks the contract, you can't just move your shite into their house.
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