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re: Why is a fetus culpable for the ignorant actions of the parents?
Posted on 9/6/17 at 1:23 pm to ShoeBang
Posted on 9/6/17 at 1:23 pm to ShoeBang
quote:
Because I believe that every person has a right to life from the moment of conception?
No.
quote:
That no one has the right to deny another person the chance at living?
Also no.
quote:
I would call that quite libertarian and part of that amazing document that started the country we live in:
Of course you would, but that doesn't mean you'd be correct.
Also, link to the portion that addresses abortion.
quote:
No one person has the right to deny life to an unborn innocent.
Incorrect. Abortion is legal. Your dislike of something doesn't remove one's right to do it.
1
Posted on 9/6/17 at 1:28 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
Pics???
Are you a masochist?
Posted on 9/6/17 at 1:30 pm to Kentucker
quote:
Are you a masochist?
That line sounded like it was written by a woman.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 1:36 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
The black market argument is bad because it ignores the issue on its face and instead directs people to co
Not really. "On its face" is bad because you are talking about two groups who will never agree. You will never convince me life begins at conception. We will never agree.
Also "on its face" brings Jesus into the argument. Maybe not for you, I am not saying you are a bible thumper, but for many it puts the church into the equation.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 1:39 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
ncorrect. Abortion is legal. Your dislike of something doesn't remove one's right to do it.
The legality of abortion does not inherently make it lawful though. In fact I know of few constitutional scholars who agree with the lawfulness of the Roe v Wade opinion. That statement is true from either side of the aisle. Most agree the Scotus created the "right" out of some constitutional ether, not from the lawfulness of the arguments.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 1:48 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:The fundamental issue is whether or not the unborn child is a living person that has rights that should be recognized and protected by the government. Other arguments like black markets are tertiary and would be moot or at least very ineffective if the unborn were recognized as people deserving of a chance at life. Why should I weep for a woman who wants to dodge her responsibilities with a black market abortion compared to the millions of unborn children that have been killed? If you don't think an unborn child is a person then sure you're going to make a big deal about the black market, but it ignores the real argument.
Not really. "On its face" is bad because you are talking about two groups who will never agree. You will never convince me life begins at conception. We will never agree.
quote:"On its face" was in reference to the front-and-center argument of personhood that should be had instead of secondary issues that don't get to the heart of the problem.
Also "on its face" brings Jesus into the argument. Maybe not for you, I am not saying you are a bible thumper, but for many it puts the church into the equation.
I am also a "bible thumper", and I believe everyone should be, as well. It won't end well for those who ignore the truth and embrace a lie, but that's somewhat besides the point of this discussion.
This post was edited on 9/6/17 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 9/6/17 at 1:51 pm to sugar71
quote:
Their obsession with fetuses ,but disdain for single mothers & their children is fascinating. Once that fetus is born ' frick you' .
That only exists in your mind.
Sad.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 1:52 pm to Ebbandflow
quote:
a fricking fetus, with zero sentience, being born in a terrible situation is worse than abortion.
Strawman.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 2:11 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
If you don't think an unborn child is a person then sure you're going to make a big deal about the black market, but it ignores the real argument.
Ok. I don't think an unborn child is a person. I qualify that with its ability to survive outside of the womb. Which is over 20 weeks gestation. Nobody can get me onboard with a late term abortion. That's where I jump off the pro choice train. That fetus should be in an adoption agency, not a basin.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 2:17 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:Earliest premature child that was born and survived outside the womb was born at 21 weeks gestation. Are you on-board with setting that as the cut-off for the time being until medicine advances?
Ok. I don't think an unborn child is a person. I qualify that with its ability to survive outside of the womb. Which is over 20 weeks gestation. Nobody can get me onboard with a late term abortion. That's where I jump off the pro choice train. That fetus should be in an adoption agency, not a basin
Posted on 9/6/17 at 2:28 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Earliest premature child that was born and survived outside the womb was born at 21 weeks gestation. Are you on-board with setting that as the cut-off for the time being until medicine advances?
Probably just final trimester?
At 21 weeks I'm sure that child was in a NICU for a couple months. I just think late term abortions are the ultimate in laziness. You've done EVERYTHING wrong. Make up your fricking mind. As they should be they are difficult to find.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 2:53 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:Well that kid was born about a month and a half earlier than the start of the third trimester. I think that would be a good starting point if we want to talk about "viability" outside of the womb in regards to when abortions should stop.
Probably just final trimester?
At 21 weeks I'm sure that child was in a NICU for a couple months. I just think late term abortions are the ultimate in laziness. You've done EVERYTHING wrong. Make up your fricking mind. As they should be they are difficult to find
Even if we went with that argument, it's still not logically consistent. Why does the location matter in this case? If the goal is to outlaw abortion when the child is alive, then why is being outside of the womb make it alive vs. inside the womb? What is the difference biologically? If the child can survive on life support outside of the womb, why don't we consider a child inside the womb on a natural variant of life support? Seems arbitrary to me.
Also, if we settle on some variation of late-term abortion as being outlawed, then does that mean women don't have full rights over their own bodies? If a woman can abort a baby at 4 weeks, why not at at 40 weeks? Does the unborn child develop some natural rights after 27 weeks that supersede the rights of the mother to kill it? At what point does it stop being "her body" and start being "the child's body"?
Posted on 9/6/17 at 3:06 pm to FooManChoo
The child is no longer dependent on the mother for oxygen.
An abortion at 35+ weeks is NOT a simple procedure. The mother would probably be just as well off waiting another month for delivery. It's also no longer a simple procedure to find. Meaning good luck finding a place to perform it.
An abortion at 35+ weeks is NOT a simple procedure. The mother would probably be just as well off waiting another month for delivery. It's also no longer a simple procedure to find. Meaning good luck finding a place to perform it.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 3:07 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
That line sounded like it was written by a woman.
Well, I'm a feminist. Does that count?
Posted on 9/6/17 at 3:17 pm to LSU alum wannabe
quote:So? If it's dependent on anything at that point is it not viable?
The child is no longer dependent on the mother for oxygen.
quote:So? Neither is heart surgery but if it's doable, why not allow it to be done? If the mother wants to take the risk, why not let her? Otherwise that's a violation of her body, or something.
An abortion at 35+ weeks is NOT a simple procedure. The mother would probably be just as well off waiting another month for delivery.
quote:OK, but availability is a market condition, not a condition of morality or legality. If there were suddenly a big demand for late-term abortions, I'm sure there would be a supply that would rise up to meet it, especially if it was financially viable.
It's also no longer a simple procedure to find. Meaning good luck finding a place to perform it.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 3:19 pm to CptBengal
quote:
Why is a fetus culpable for the ignorant actions of the parents?
Posted on 9/6/17 at 3:48 pm to BlackAdam
quote:
The legality of abortion does not inherently make it lawful though. In fact I know of few constitutional scholars who agree with the lawfulness of the Roe v Wade opinion. That statement is true from either side of the aisle. Most agree the Scotus created the "right" out of some constitutional ether, not from the lawfulness of the arguments.
None of that refutes anything I said.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 3:51 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Neither is heart surgery
You sure do love your shite analogies.
Posted on 9/6/17 at 3:58 pm to Terry the Tiger
quote:
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime."
You're just playing into my hands. If you teach a man to fish at means you're giving him an education. You don't actually give a s*** about giving her one at an education or having anything to do with them see you really don't want to teach a man to do anything. I am much more for a holistic Society in which education is held up as a premium and people can learn that whole fishing trick I don't want to just hand people anything for free.
We should all have free education all the way through college. We would live in a much nicer Society
This post was edited on 9/6/17 at 3:59 pm
Posted on 9/6/17 at 4:00 pm to Ebbandflow
quote:
a fricking fetus, with zero sentience, being born in a terrible situation is worse than abortion.
children really arent sentient until about 2-3 yrs of age.
Can we kill toddlers now?
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