- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
Why does our educational system glorify stem and 4 year degrees?
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:13 am
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:13 am
What's the point?
Half these kids without the aptitude to become a programmer or biologist might make damn good plumbers or mechanics.
And that not a slam. A lot of white collar people are hopeless when it comes to spatial sense or working with their hands.
Can you imagine if these kids who are sitting in class learning nothing had other options?
"Hey, would you rather sit in this class all Day or come with us and build a house!"
It just seems so impractical.
We need to test these kids for aptitude at an early age and put them on a more logical path.
This might make a big difference with crime and with overall living standards and even just basic social harmony.
26
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:16 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
Half these kids without the aptitude to become a programmer or biologist might make damn good plumbers or mechanics.
And that not a slam. A lot of white collar people are hopeless when it comes to spatial sense or working with their hands.
yes, a person who can get a 4-year degree in computer science would have problem with plumbing or being a mechanic
quote:
We need to test these kids for aptitude at an early age and put them on a more logical path.
This might make a big difference with crime and with overall living standards and even just basic social harmony.
Yes, having the population cohorts most likely to engage in crime less educated will do wonders for their productivity long-term
Look, I think it is a waste to spend resources trying to educate kids who show no future, but I'm not going to pretend that my preferred plan of removing them from classes is going to impact their chances positively.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:19 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
Why does our educational system glorify stem and 4 year degrees?
My little brothers high school has programs to get into welding, mechanic, banking, hospitality, and several partnerships with local businesses to hire graduates right out of school for those not interested/suited for the college route?
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:20 am to RiverCityTider
The issue is that society finds the idea that you would prioritize educational resources by aptitude repugnant. When the kids are being discussed, people feel like steering or denying opportunity based on demonstrated aptitude is unjust. Add the politics on top of it and the messaging would be my opponent doesn't think your kid is smart enough to chase the American dream.
Most people prefer the outlier illusion of coming from nothing to be something surprising to the numbers which demonstrate very few people do that.
ETA: SFP's dismissive post above did more to demonstrate exactly what I just said than just about anything else could. QED.
Most people prefer the outlier illusion of coming from nothing to be something surprising to the numbers which demonstrate very few people do that.
ETA: SFP's dismissive post above did more to demonstrate exactly what I just said than just about anything else could. QED.
This post was edited on 2/24/24 at 9:22 am
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:24 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
We need to test these kids for aptitude at an early age and put them on a more logical path.
This might make a big difference with crime and with overall living standards and even just basic social harmony.
Sounds like Brave New World. FDR also proposed this in his speech to Princeton.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:25 am to RiverCityTider
Nothing wrong with STEM degrees, and anyone getting those will have a good job when they get out of school.
The issue is when you get degrees that have no use in the job market. Several degrees are great if you continue to law school or phd level but often just a bachelors isn’t going to cut it. Ie psychology, criminal justice, history, etc.
The job market for those isn’t a great return on investment. Especially if you attend a private university. Imagine paying $300k to be a teacher. That just isn’t a great ROI in today’s climate.
The issue is when you get degrees that have no use in the job market. Several degrees are great if you continue to law school or phd level but often just a bachelors isn’t going to cut it. Ie psychology, criminal justice, history, etc.
The job market for those isn’t a great return on investment. Especially if you attend a private university. Imagine paying $300k to be a teacher. That just isn’t a great ROI in today’s climate.
This post was edited on 2/24/24 at 9:31 am
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:26 am to TerryDawg03
quote:
Sounds like Brave New World.
So does a governmental body determining what should be taught, how it is taught, and to whom it is taught without regard to the individual. So does social injunctions from the judiciary, coercive spending from the federal government, and a leviathan funding process that not a single person knows what is being spent on what. You're simply objecting to the part where we make the dystopia setup more efficient.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:28 am to RiverCityTider
Look, there's not a damn thing wrong with the trades, as here we are, nearly a year since my daughter graduated from OU. She managed to get a great job with really good pay right away, but several of her friends that she graduated with are working as waitresses because they can't get interviews for one reason or another. Of course, these girls (sorority types) would never be the type to work in a trade. It has to be depressing for them.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:32 am to HubbaBubba
Part of that could be because they got a degree in general studies?
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:33 am to HubbaBubba
So while society finds it repugnant to prioritize educational resources by aptitude, it hasn't caught a passing glance that instead the resources are prioritized by money. Industry has used a 4 year degree as a selection heuristic for over 30 years. It's now a cost to do most any white collar job. Industry doesn't actually think a 4 year degree teaches you anything that they can use, mind you, they will actually train you on what to do. They use it as, this person wasn't so flakey they couldn't get a college degree. Takes tens of thousands of dollars to demonstrate that commitment and not actually teach you marketable skills.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:34 am to HubbaBubba
quote:
SlowFlowPro
That is the dumbest arse post I've ever seen.
And yes, there are plenty of programmers who might not be great plumbers or mechanics.
And I'm not talking about compelling people. I'm talking about rational academic counseling.
I find it crazy that you people think it makes sense to force kids to attend school for no benefit to themselves or society.
This thread is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. We look down on and stigmatize alot of work that this country requires.
Yet when people graduate unemployment we bitch about crime and welfare.
This post was edited on 2/24/24 at 9:47 am
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:39 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
yes, a person who can get a 4-year degree in computer science would have problem with plumbing or being a mechanic
Im not sure if you're serious or not on this. If you are truly laughing at the idea that someone who can read a book might not be able to work with their hands, then you are the one to be laughed at. My brother in law is a CPA and a damn good one and a damn good man, he is shite with his hands. No athletic, not coordinated, no idea how to trouble shoot issues on the fly without having an answer that he read. I love him to death but that is the truth and he even knows it.
I actually agree with the OP on this point. The issue is that so many things require a GED or high school diploma that have no need for them in the slightest. Everyone emphasizes education without the thought of a different kind of education. I have a guy that works for me that can't read or write, legit (not talking shite or hyperbole) but the dude can run equipment and is a fantastic dirt guy. If I have questions on how to make something work or how much undercut we need on a project, I have no qualms about asking his advice.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:43 am to therick711
I have a neighbor from London and another from outside of Belfast. They were both tested in early 7th grade and told their grades weren't cutting it.
They were told they tested out to show that they would be good electricians. They went to trade school in 7th grade, but were also taught good life skills, like about banks, investing for the future, opening accounts for water and electricity, nutrition, grocery shopping, health etc.
They were told they tested out to show that they would be good electricians. They went to trade school in 7th grade, but were also taught good life skills, like about banks, investing for the future, opening accounts for water and electricity, nutrition, grocery shopping, health etc.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:44 am to Warfarer
And let's not forget that many "white collar" workers are basically not really adding anything to society.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:44 am to RiverCityTider
The education system does overemphasize the 4 year degree, but STEM fields should be prioritized over bullshite like women’s studies and interpretive dance.
I do agree with you on trades. Society needs to stop stigmatizing them.
I do agree with you on trades. Society needs to stop stigmatizing them.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:45 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
And yes, there are plenty of programmers who might not be great plumbers or mechanics.
I'd take that bet
IQ is largely destiny.
quote:
I find it crazy that you people think it makes sense to force kids to attend school for no benefit to themselves or society.
I find only the ignorant don't understand the value of a basic education. It has benefits. Lots of them.
quote:
We look down on and stigmatize along of work that this country requires.
The OP took shots at white collar jobs and the aptitude of those who get degrees (Especially STEM degrees).
That's the only shots taken ITT.
Me saying a person who on average will be many IQ cohorts above your average plumber (in terms of IQ) being able to do the job of a plumber is in no way insulting or "looking down" on plumbers.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:46 am to Hangit
quote:
I have a neighbor from London and another from outside of Belfast. They were both tested in early 7th grade and told their grades weren't cutting it.
They were told they tested out to show that they would be good electricians. They went to trade school in 7th grade, but were also taught good life skills, like about banks, investing for the future, opening accounts for water and electricity, nutrition, grocery shopping, health etc.
And I am actually really good with this idea. Trade schools that teach the trades but also teach day to day living skills too.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:47 am to Warfarer
quote:
I actually agree with the OP on this point
Shocking a person who would say this:
quote:
he is shite with his hands. No athletic, not coordinated, no idea how to trouble shoot issues on the fly without having an answer that he read. I love him to death but that is the truth and he even knows it.
Would agree with OP
quote:
I have a guy that works for me that can't read or write, legit (not talking shite or hyperbole) but the dude can run equipment and is a fantastic dirt guy. If I have questions on how to make something work or how much undercut we need on a project, I have no qualms about asking his advice.
He almost assuredly has an IQ above his job level and his family likely failed him during important developmental periods of his childhood.
Had he been raised in a different environment, he'd be your BIL.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:47 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
yes, a person who can get a 4-year degree in computer science would have problem with plumbing or being a mechanic
You’d be surprised. I knew straight a students that couldn’t figure out how to use a broom.
Posted on 2/24/24 at 9:48 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
I find it crazy that you people think it makes sense to force kids to attend school for no benefit to themselves or society.
Slowflow represents the opinions of nearly no one on this site.
Page 1 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News