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What kneelers and confederate flag waivers have in common...
Posted on 10/9/17 at 8:21 pm
Posted on 10/9/17 at 8:21 pm
In both instances, the perpetrators (kneelers and flag wavers) believe that they are making one statement, but people on the outside view it to mean something entirely different.
Kneelers are trying to make a statement about institutional racism in the justice system, but those who view the protest see it as as insult to soldiers and first responders. They see it as those players calling the entire country and those who died to protect it as racist.
Those who wave the confederate flag do so to show Southern Pride and to honor the memories of their ancestors who served under that flag during the Civil War. Those on the outside see them as being racists supporting slavery and treason while trying to intimidate black people.
In both cases, while one's cause may be just, those who choose to engage in the behavior must recognize that the statement they want to make is often not the one that is perceived by the general public.
I'm not trying to pick sides, but I feel like such a comparison could bring some clarity to the situation.
Kneelers are trying to make a statement about institutional racism in the justice system, but those who view the protest see it as as insult to soldiers and first responders. They see it as those players calling the entire country and those who died to protect it as racist.
Those who wave the confederate flag do so to show Southern Pride and to honor the memories of their ancestors who served under that flag during the Civil War. Those on the outside see them as being racists supporting slavery and treason while trying to intimidate black people.
In both cases, while one's cause may be just, those who choose to engage in the behavior must recognize that the statement they want to make is often not the one that is perceived by the general public.
I'm not trying to pick sides, but I feel like such a comparison could bring some clarity to the situation.
This post was edited on 10/9/17 at 8:25 pm
18
Posted on 10/9/17 at 8:22 pm to kingbob
quote:
What kneelers and confederate flag waivers have in common...
Both are fake protesters being carried out by the left?
Posted on 10/9/17 at 8:23 pm to kingbob
Your points make sense and are based on reason and open mindedness.
Which means this won't end well for you.
Which means this won't end well for you.
Posted on 10/9/17 at 8:24 pm to Seldom Seen
quote:
Both are fake protesters being carried out by the left?
I'm talking about regular people who fly the stars and bars, not tiki torch waiving Soros supplicants.
Posted on 10/9/17 at 8:24 pm to kingbob
*wavers
Posted on 10/9/17 at 8:30 pm to Seldom Seen
It ain’t the left waving the confederate flags. I’m not even sure how you got that wrong....
Posted on 10/9/17 at 9:21 pm to kingbob
I don’t think this an unfair comparison. So... duck? 
Posted on 10/9/17 at 9:52 pm to kingbob
One group does their little displays on their own time and money while the others are doing it to a captive audience on the paying customers’ dollars and time.
I’d say that’s the biggest difference.
I’d say that’s the biggest difference.
Posted on 10/9/17 at 9:56 pm to kingbob
quote:
Those who wave the confederate flag do so to show Southern Pride and to honor the memories of their ancestors who served under that flag during the Civil War.
But those redneck motherfrickers aren't doing that during the pledge or national anthem, right?
Just checking...
Posted on 10/9/17 at 9:57 pm to Seldom Seen
Everything is the left’s fault.
We’re incredibly powerful, but snowflakes.
Jesus.
We’re incredibly powerful, but snowflakes.
Jesus.
Posted on 10/9/17 at 10:19 pm to kingbob
quote:
In both cases, while one's cause may be just, those who choose to engage in the behavior must recognize that the statement they want to make is often not the one that is perceived by the general public. I'm not trying to pick sides, but I feel like such a comparison could bring some clarity to the situation.
you are officially one of my favorite posters.
Posted on 10/9/17 at 10:39 pm to volod
Thanks, volod. Unlike most posters, I actually really enjoy most of your threads, and as a fellow engineering grad (LSU not Southern) I understood the job market struggles that most OTer’s just scoffed at. Thanks for listening. 
Posted on 10/10/17 at 1:46 am to kingbob
Very good point. I have noticed the same thing.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 2:28 am to kingbob
quote:
What kneelers and confederate flag waivers have in common...
In both instances, the perpetrators (kneelers and flag wavers) believe that they are making one statement, but people on the outside view it to mean something entirely different.
Kneelers are trying to make a statement about institutional racism in the justice system, but those who view the protest see it as as insult to soldiers and first responders. They see it as those players calling the entire country and those who died to protect it as racist.
Those who wave the confederate flag do so to show Southern Pride and to honor the memories of their ancestors who served under that flag during the Civil War. Those on the outside see them as being racists supporting slavery and treason while trying to intimidate black people.
In both cases, while one's cause may be just, those who choose to engage in the behavior must recognize that the statement they want to make is often not the one that is perceived by the general public.
I'm not trying to pick sides, but I feel like such a comparison could bring some clarity to the situation.
A keen observation well stated.
Not often do I encounter a simple truth I have never considered.
Well done.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:13 am to kingbob
I understand how you have come to this post but
1) You must not be including White Supremists in your "flag wavers" total because those people's message is pretty obvious. Intolerance and hate.
2) How do non-white supremisits who are confederate flag wavers stand by the explanation "Southern Pride and to honor the memories of their ancestors who served under that flag during the Civil War"? These ancestors where some of the most unpatriotic people. Not only did they not respect the American flag, they killed those that fought to preserve it. In fact these ancestors that fought in the civil war killed more AMERICAN Military personnel then any other foreign body.
Not to mention the whole slavery part.
1) You must not be including White Supremists in your "flag wavers" total because those people's message is pretty obvious. Intolerance and hate.
2) How do non-white supremisits who are confederate flag wavers stand by the explanation "Southern Pride and to honor the memories of their ancestors who served under that flag during the Civil War"? These ancestors where some of the most unpatriotic people. Not only did they not respect the American flag, they killed those that fought to preserve it. In fact these ancestors that fought in the civil war killed more AMERICAN Military personnel then any other foreign body.
Not to mention the whole slavery part.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:20 am to FanInLA
Most ancestors who fought for the Confederacy were poor men who had no more say in their Government's direction than any other soldier who fought in other wars they didn't agree with. Take your pick of Vietnam, WWI, or basically in any war in history.
Pretending that the average confederate soldier was really anti-American is ridiculous.
With that said, I will never I stand anyone who flies a confederate flag while claiming to be a proud American.
Pretending that the average confederate soldier was really anti-American is ridiculous.
With that said, I will never I stand anyone who flies a confederate flag while claiming to be a proud American.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:27 am to CorporateTiger
quote:
Pretending that the average confederate soldier was really anti-American is ridiculous.
So the average confederate wasn't fighting to leave the United States and create a new country?
Just fighting because they were made to?
And WWI was an extremely popular war. Those soldiers fought for Americans and came back heros.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:31 am to FanInLA
No I am saying that the common soldier living in the south had relatively little say in the direction his state went. Then a significant number of the soldiers (on both sides) were paid to fight the war instead of the rich people who had the most say in the direction of their state (and the most at stake on the outcome).
For WWI, I really meant more the soldiers of the European powers who were caught in a giant geopolitical game much bigger than themselves.
I am just saying that I understand why some people have fond memories of their particular ancestors who were confederate soldiers, even though they fought against the US.
For WWI, I really meant more the soldiers of the European powers who were caught in a giant geopolitical game much bigger than themselves.
I am just saying that I understand why some people have fond memories of their particular ancestors who were confederate soldiers, even though they fought against the US.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:46 am to CorporateTiger
Thanks corporate for the dialogue because this has always baffled me.
This statement would make more sense if these ancestors where actually known by the confederate flag wavers of today. What I mean is, this war happened so long ago that we haven't personally met these ancestors. It seems more likely that people are embracing the ideology of the flag and that's the conundrum I have.
quote:
I am just saying that I understand why some people have fond memories of their particular ancestors who were confederate soldiers, even though they fought against the US.
This statement would make more sense if these ancestors where actually known by the confederate flag wavers of today. What I mean is, this war happened so long ago that we haven't personally met these ancestors. It seems more likely that people are embracing the ideology of the flag and that's the conundrum I have.
Posted on 10/10/17 at 4:50 am to FanInLA
Agreed, good discussion. As I said in my first post, I don't think that waving the confederate flag is a good way to honor your ancestors that fought in the war. Like it or not, the Confederate flag is itself an anti-American symbol. I'm just trying to separate out a group of people who have reason to say "my ancestry is wrapped up in Confederacy, but I don't think my ancestors were bad people."
Ultimately, both sides of this flag wavers and kneelers should be left alone to make their statements. The histrionics over both statements are ridiculous to me.
Ultimately, both sides of this flag wavers and kneelers should be left alone to make their statements. The histrionics over both statements are ridiculous to me.
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