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Started By
Message
What is "value?"
Posted on 7/12/17 at 5:55 pm
Posted on 7/12/17 at 5:55 pm
The crux of the "Don Jr. broke the law" claim comes down to one word - "value." Here's how the New Yorker puts it:
I've read the federal statute and it seems to me pretty obvious a broad interpretation of the word "value" could conceivably, reductio ad absurdum, prevent even very basic communications with foreign governments during an election. Couldn't an endorsement by a foreign official that you give permission for constitute "value?" Let's be honest: that's clearly too broad to pass the smell test here. It is more reasonable that "value" here means "monetary value."
Upvote if you agree.
Downvote if you think it means the "basically anything" definition.
quote:
Federal law prohibits American campaign officials from soliciting from foreign governments “anything of value . . . in connection with” an election.
I've read the federal statute and it seems to me pretty obvious a broad interpretation of the word "value" could conceivably, reductio ad absurdum, prevent even very basic communications with foreign governments during an election. Couldn't an endorsement by a foreign official that you give permission for constitute "value?" Let's be honest: that's clearly too broad to pass the smell test here. It is more reasonable that "value" here means "monetary value."
Upvote if you agree.
Downvote if you think it means the "basically anything" definition.
This post was edited on 7/12/17 at 5:56 pm
17
Posted on 7/12/17 at 6:47 pm to RedStickBR
Which statute?
Posted on 7/12/17 at 6:53 pm to RedStickBR
No, it does not have to be monetary value - example: "if you give me the info and we win, I will make sure that sanctions are eased" / that would be something of value that is not monetary
Here is where I am getting tripped up and why I believe Jr has nothing to worry about, there is nothing that shows that anything of value was offered by Trump Jr
Here is where I am getting tripped up and why I believe Jr has nothing to worry about, there is nothing that shows that anything of value was offered by Trump Jr
Posted on 7/12/17 at 6:53 pm to TigerDoc
Posted on 7/12/17 at 6:57 pm to RedStickBR
Nice link, does sharing info constitute a donation?
Dershowitz says no....
Dershowitz says no....
Posted on 7/12/17 at 6:57 pm to dcbl
They are claiming receipt isn't necessary, only solicitation.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 6:58 pm to RedStickBR
What in the hell's "diversity"?
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:01 pm to RedStickBR
It means a strict definition of monetary value over a certain amount if the person in question of violating the statute is democrat.
It means a loose and broad definition of anything helpful or worth anything if a republican is the person in question
It means a loose and broad definition of anything helpful or worth anything if a republican is the person in question
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:01 pm to RedStickBR
Funny how liberal rags have a toggle switch when it comes to the rule of law. Notice that?
This post was edited on 7/13/17 at 7:54 am
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:02 pm to RedStickBR
It means the intrinsic monetary worth of something.
For example, that car is worth $500.
That diamond ring is worth $2000.
That house is worth $500,000.
Information has no intrinsic monetary worth.
For example, that car is worth $500.
That diamond ring is worth $2000.
That house is worth $500,000.
Information has no intrinsic monetary worth.
This post was edited on 7/12/17 at 7:12 pm
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:04 pm to RedStickBR
Understand, but they still have a weak case
Jr never solicited anything, nor did he offer anything of value
Jr never solicited anything, nor did he offer anything of value
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:06 pm to deltaland
quote:
It means a strict definition of monetary value over a certain amount if the person in question of violating the statute is democrat.
It's not even that. It's a certain amount (think hundreds of thousands) plus a clear causal link between an action and the money. So $500k and a vote isn't enough. You have to prove that the vote happened because of the $500k.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:28 pm to the808bass
quote:
It's not even that. It's a certain amount (think hundreds of thousands) plus a clear causal link between an action and the money. So $500k and a vote isn't enough. You have to prove that the vote happened because of the $500k.
This absolutely false.
If you offer someone 500k you are soliciting. It wouldn't matter if they took it or not.
Donny Jr replied to an email that the Russian government had information that would incriminate Hilary and he said he loved it.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:43 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
It's not even that. It's a certain amount (think hundreds of thousands) plus a clear causal link between an action and the money. So $500k and a vote isn't enough. You have to prove that the vote happened because of the $500k.
quote:
This absolutely false.
If you offer someone 500k you are soliciting. It wouldn't matter if they took it or not.
Donny Jr replied to an email that the Russian government had information that would incriminate Hilary and he said he loved it.
So what?
Don Jr. didn't offer to give the Russian attorney any money or anything worth money for the information.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:45 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
If you offer someone 500k you are soliciting. It wouldn't matter if they took it or not.
this is just arse backwards
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:52 pm to DawgfaninCa
quote:
So what?
Don Jr. didn't offer to give the Russian attorney any money or anything worth money for the information.
One could make the argument...and I'm not necessarily saying I agree...that by using the information to defeat Clinton and put Trump in the White House, Russia could benefit from possible relaxed sanctions, etc., etc., and I'm sure someone could put a possible dollar value on the impact on the Russian economy.
This post was edited on 7/12/17 at 7:53 pm
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:54 pm to RedStickBR
quote:
Federal law prohibits American campaign officials from soliciting
1) What is a campaign "official?" What distinguishes an "official" from just a friend or family member?
2) Don, Jr. didn't solicit anything. They contacted him.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:55 pm to diplip
quote:
If you offer someone 500k you are soliciting. It wouldn't matter if they took it or not.
this is just arse backwards
Do a little googling and you can probably find hundreds of articles about prostitution stings where johns solicit female undercover cops. Happens all the time.
Posted on 7/12/17 at 7:59 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
If you offer someone 500k you are soliciting. It wouldn't matter if they took it or not.
What if I offer your non-profit $1M? Or I offer your husband $500k for a speech? Soliciting or no?
Posted on 7/12/17 at 8:12 pm to BamaGradinTn
quote:
Do a little googling and you can probably find hundreds of articles about prostitution stings where johns solicit female undercover cops. Happens all the time.
do a little googling for the definition of solicitation as it pertains to campaign finance.
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